Feldon An interesting topic has popped up on the EQ2 Forums asking the question:
Is there Raid Progression for Small Guilds?
The Shadow Odyssey ended up offering many choices for Casual Raid Guilds. Sentinel’s Fate has not been quite so generous with such progression choices. Game Update 56 will add two raid zones, but both are intended for 24-person raids. We compare the expansions in today’s commentary.
The Shadow Odyssey: x2 No Longer Second Class
After launch, The Shadow Odyssey expansion introduced quite a few options for both Casual Guilds and Casual Raid Guilds. The first of these was the Ward of Elements, an extremely popular x2 raid zone which has been discussed frequently here on EQ2Wire. It was the first 12-person raid zone with excellent gear (including both armor and jewelry upgrades) with minimal access requirements and a smooth difficulty progression.
Later on, Miragul’s Planar Shard added several very easy enemies with substantial gear upgrades. No expansion prior to TSO put such good gear into the grasp of so many players. TSO provided a boatload of upgrades for casual raiders and hardcore raiders alike. Although its armor sets proved to be a design straightjacket for developers, TSO had a clear itemization path that players could follow easily.
A mid-year game update saw the introduction of Kurn’s Tower, another x2 raid zone. However this zone had some unique issues which ensured it would never be as popular as WoE. Some of the mobs seemed to be designed for a raid with one main tank group (MT, healer, illy/coer, troub/dirge), but the third boss (the twins) seemed designed for a raid force with two main tank groups. Kurn’s Tower also had an awful lot of trash mobs. It is for these reasons that it saw a lot less traffic than Ward of Elements.
Sentinel’s Fate: Ch-ch-ch-changes…
With the cancellation of Gear Scaling, and 3 months of constant changes and revamps to Treasured, Mastercrafted, Legendary, and Fabled gear in this game (we’ll see the biggest changes yet next Tuesday with Game Update 56), it’s amazing that players are able to figure out what the Itemization Roadmap is supposed to look like. Indeed we have had our own difficulties writing an article to this effect.
While Guilds that are able to fill out 24 raid slots and were well-geared at the conclusion of TSO have been telling us that Sentinel’s Fate is largely a pushover compared to the endless roadblocks of Shadow Odyssey raiding. But for Casual Raid Guilds able to only field 12-14 players at a time, Sentinel’s Fate has provided few options.
Sentinel’s Fate does offer as 12-person raid zone — The Vigilant: Final Destruction — but it is not the second coming of Ward of Elements. The first enemy inside is a complete pushover, but the second named, a group of 3 skeletal dogs, has laid waste to most guilds that have attempted to kill them. This obvious gatekeeper boss prevents access to far easier mobs beyond it. Even with tweaks, this mob seems to require gear far more powerful than that available to players at this point in zone progression. That x4 raid gear seems to be required to kill the second boss of an x2 raid zone has been noted with a sense of irony.
While pickup raids of Ward of Elements were (and are) common, there’s been no such luck for The Vigilant x2 beyond a few feeble experimental runs in the first week or two of the expansion. Nobody wants to spend an hour organizing a raid that will be over in 30 minutes. Adding further insult is that The Vigilant x2 requires at least one player to have completed an access quest that tasks the player with clearing one of Sentinel’s Fate’s harder group instances (The Vigilant: Rescue).
A quick glance at LootDB’s entry for The Vigilant: Final Destruction reveals more frustrating news. This zone drops no armor. You’ll get some of the best upgrades in the game on Cloaks, Jewelry, and Charms, and a few Weapons, but if you came here looking for armor, you’ll have to shop elsewhere.
UPDATE: I received an avalanche of feedback on this article informing me that The Vigilant x2 zone offers some of the best Weapons in the game. Check out the LootDB link I posted above to see some of them.
It would be interesting to know how many casual guilds are having success going back and attempting The Shadow Odyssey raid progression with 12-15 players.
Hmm where to start about this article…
(A) I play on crushbone, and i have been to the (but not defeated) the last boss of Vig X2 with complete pick up groups twice in the last 2 weeks.
(B) If you get get even beat Vig:Rescue to get access to it….you really don’t belong in Vig X2 yet and should work on doing some more instances to get some gear upgrades that would prove Vig X2 to be easier to run
-The first boss of Perah’Celsis Abandoned Labs is easy enough to be 2 grouped if you can find a decent geared tank (or 3 grouped if you can’t) < Also can be very easily puggable… And for that matter i don't see why vernox (Boss#2) couldn't be as well as long as the group were to stay ranged to avoid taking the melee range AoE's
But in an overall sense, i do agree with the article giving less options than TSO for raiders…. but remember this: Was WoE/Kurns released with TSO? No, it came way later than TSO's release =P
Vig3 didn’t seem any harder than 1 or 2 to me when I ran it in a PUG. I think Cella’s more difficult, personally. Final 2 Cella fights, at least.
Vigilant x2 actually has a few of the best weapons in the expansion on its loot tables.
Rib Separator being one of them.
Vigilante: Final Destruction drops some of the best weapons (except the hardmode encounters though) in this xpac so far. Awsome 2 hander for brawlers/zerkers and mystics. Two very nice weapons for scouts, etc
There are weapon drops in Vigilant: Final Destruction. Some pretty good ones, at at that.
Great article. I was thinking the same thing being part of a casual raiding guild myself. WoE was a great raid zone and I confess I had my hopes crushed when I saw that in GU 56 we wont see a new x2 raid zone. This makes me really sad.
that info about NO weapons isnt totall accurte. there are some weapons in the zone on the later mobs. Zoz drops a pretty nice scout weapon Rib Seperator, there is 1 or 2 decent mage weapons and there are 2 warrior weapons as well. unfortunately we are yet to see any priest weapons
The funny thing about the new X2 zone is that it takes less time to clear Toxx(hard mode) and Labs(Killing Waansu).
The amount of trash mobs in the X2 zone just makes it so booooooring to do.
I’m not sure what your sources are, but I guarantee that Vigilant x2 drops some great weapons for tanks and scouts, and a few for casters that aren’t as exciting but still decent.
I’ve updated the article to address the difficulty of Vigilant 3 and that Vigilant x2 has weapons. I looked back at LootDB and saw a few choices. Thanks.
Thanks for the avalanche of feedback. Apparently people do read my early morning posts. 😉
I’ve updated the article to mention that Vigilant x2 does in fact have some good weapon choices and linked to LootDB. 😉
You forgot to mention Kurns Tower in your analysis of TSO raid progression for small guilds. I’d actually be interested to see where you think it fit and the audience it subsribed to.
– Roldy
Added Kurn’s Tower into the post.