Feldon When the ProSiebenSat.1 deal was announced, it was indicated that some EQ2 servers would be IP locked. Existing EU players would be grandfathered into continuing to play on US servers, but US players would not be able to continue to play on EU servers. The IP locking (SOE was careful not to use this term) applied to the servers.
After this announcement went over like mustard-flavored ice cream, SOE went away for 2 1/2 months and came back with a different approach. Servers will NOT be region-locked, accounts will be. So if you try to login to your SOE account in Europe, you’ll get a message prompting you to create a ProSiebenSat.1 account. Now all of this is still months away (DCUO is first up for the transition), but folks have grown weary of waiting for answers.
Really, this boils down to whether people want to do business with ProSiebenSat.1/Alaplaya. After the announcement of the SOE-ProSiebenSat.1 deal, EQ2Wire and others found a mixed track record and a variety of warning signs which players latched onto. The primary issue is trusting ProSiebenSat.1 with our account info, the same account info that SOE has themselves stumbled at protecting in recent years.
Just Bill Me
If we stray into the realm of supposition, it’s probably a safe guess that part of the ProSiebenSat.1 deal was a healthy cheque made out to Sony Online Entertainment, with a percentage-based followup deal for each account they bring in.
Indeed, Brasse had this to say:
The partnership is not in the slightest about cost-cutting, it is about increasing revenue and services, and expanding in the European market, something that we could not have done alone. One of the issues we’ve faced over the years is that we haven’t had the staff and resources to serve our EU audience as well as we would have liked.
On the other hand, ProSiebenSat.1 are ramping up their staff in order to provide additional support and customer service to the customers that they will serve. They anticipate an increase in players from their distribution region, a well-founded premise. They have a solid marketing plan and the resources to back it up.
So the question becomes, if people would prefer to stay SOE customers, couldn’t SOE just send their requisite cut to PSS1 for each European account that stays with SOE? As daray wrote:
“[Why can’t] SOE arrange some royalty swap agreement with PSS1 for those existing accounts (in other words forward our money to PSS1 “behind the scenes”).”
From Brasse on the EQ2 Forums:
That is, in effect, how we are able to allow players to continue playing on whatever server they choose, by enacting behind the scenes mechanisms that track how many ProSiebenSat.1 players are on any given server, and accounting accordingly. They do however need to be able to administer their own accounts, as any publishing partner does.
In the previous iteration, we could only grandfather in existing, not new players. Under the new terms, even new players (perhaps friends with EU players already on US servers, or vice versa) can choose what server they play on.
A Matter of Trust
The objection in the main seems to be in doing business with ProSiebenSat.1 itself, and we have collected a lot of feedback on that, with a lot of generalizations but short on specifics (and personal experiences specifically). We understand fully that trust is earned, not granted, and that is a slow, iterative process. As I read the news tonight and see that a huge credit card processing agency just had data compromised (over 10 million accounts), I certainly understand the concern. I am leery of using my credit cards even in restaurants these days, a notorious way to lose data, as your card disappears out of sight… but I watch my accounts responsibly. Anyway, a bit off track there, but it’s getting late here, so please forgive me.
It is impossible to make everyone happy, but we worked together with ProSiebenSat.1 to ensure that everyone could play on any server they wished, which was clearly the biggest issue. You can indeed play on US servers whenever you wish, or on Splitpaw. All on the same account.
Trust is earned. If your concern is with ProSiebenSat.1 itself, that is an issue that can only be addressed over time. We are working very closely with them as partners to bring this all together.
Our hope is that EQII looks and feels very much like what we have now, because the UI for Marketplace and Accounts should be the only things that change. The game is still developed and supported by SOE (a single dev team). ProSiebenSat.1 is putting a lot into this, and they want it to work out as much as we do, I can assure you.
Our CS is working closely with ProSiebenSat.1 CS to work toward consistency. Game content and Marketplace items are created by SOE development teams. Accounts will be handled separately, but as similarly as possible, albeit with variations in marketing promotions to suit local markets. This has always been a sticking point for our existing international customers – we could never customize things well enough, so this should be a positive change.
What about Travel? Military? Expats?
Some quotes from Brasse:
EU accounts will simply be determined by IP, and we already have a series of follow-up questions on that, such as what happens when someone from outside the EU travels there and tries to log in on a laptop (that will be me later this year!), what happens with people who move in or out of the EU region, etc.
I have a query in for those who are traveling.
I responded to an earlier post on this topic, but it bears repeating to say that yes, US military bases are considered to be US IPs (they have unique IPs, easy to isolate and list).
Accessing Forums?
For instance some key members of the Test server who live in Europe and volunteer hundreds of hours per year documenting and reporting bugs, some of which get fixed.
Brasse had:
We are having a discussion on forum access this coming Tuesday. We may not have a definitive answer yet, but we’ll definitely be on the track. Again, the EASY way would be to IP lock forums as well, but there are a number of reasons why that would be undesirable. We’re working on it!
Piestro quoted the FAQ:
Will European players still have access to the SOE forums in order to interact with the Developers? If not, how will Players be able to communicate with and provide feedback to SOE?
European players will have their own localized forums and service, and will still be able to access the U.S. forums.
Power Items?
Piestro reassured players that EQ2 will not be going the way of Alaplaya browser games with pay-to-win items:
As has been stated before SOE will retain control of development of the game. EQII is a very different product than the products available via Alaplaya, and there is little to no relevance in what their other games offer to what EQII will offer.
Frankly I had little trust in SOE up to the point where we could use an authenticator. As a EU player I have even less now. I do not know this company. I’ve read all most have said about them so far, and that’s it for me.
I’ve taken a few months off, gone to play that ‘other’ game, with the possibility I’d come back to my first MMO love; EQ2.
I will always miss EQ2. I loved it for 7 years! But I cannot invest my trust in ProSiebenSat.1 or SOE at this time. I disagreed that EQ2 should go F2P. I quit when SOE decided EU players would be sent to a disreputable company. Argue with me if you wish, but I will always disagree. Sorry. I cannot trust this company. I cannot no longer trust SOE. It’s such a shame. I love EQ2. But I will not play it anymore.
I’ll keep tabs, see how things progress…
This is off-shoring mmo style. Will not be long until you call CS and hear; Hello there good sir, this is Peggy how may I assist you today…
That Peggy comment made me chuckle 🙂
This whole thing also affects all access passes … so far it seems as european players will have to pay twice in the future … PSS1 for EQ2 etc. and SOE for EQ1 etc.
I’ve had enough ‘personal experience’ with Alaplaya to know I’ll never make an account with ProSieben/Alaplaya. So this change is a goodbye to EQ2 for me. Not that I have played since the IP lock announcement. Have missed it for sure, had a tiny hope that somehow we could get to choose where to make an account. Since that is not the case, I have no other choice than to look for another game. I’ll keep subscribing here though, enjoy Feldon’s post.
So they are still FORCING european players to open an account with PSS1 if they want to continue to play :-/
Can they legally prevent me to continue using SOE US ?
Actualy i do wonder if this is legal after all…
Time to backpedal SOE! Only way I’ll return to EQ2 is if I can continue to use my SOE account. Yes, it is as simple as that. I do NOT want to use PSS1. I do NOT want to have to sign up and will not sign up with another company.
Loyal customers for 5+ years surely should be allowed to continue using our old accounts and not being forced into the hands of a shady company we do not trust? It can be done.
If SOE insist on forcing ProSieben on us, then I’ve logged into Norrath for the last time…
Cancelled the game and my time runs out in a few days,very depressing if/when i log in EQ2 has been my game of choice since 2005 without break and even now with all of the foolish things they’ve done to the game i’ve stuck with it,now they choose to move to a company i do not know,one that looks amerterish in the extreme inept to boot,no thanks i’ll give my cash somewhere else.
I’ll be keeping an eye on Feldons site as i enjoy his commentary but after the weekend thats it for me regarding EQ2 and its a bloody shame,it was the best MMO out there for a good while SOE though seemed intent on wrecking it and with this ill thought out move they have,for me at least.
EQ2VPN.com is available. 😉 A new service from EQ2Wire? 😉
Sad 🙁
Though I have no knowledge if P7S1 will be better or worse than SOE at handling my personal information, this deal still makes me feel like a 2nd or 3rd rate customer, seeing as how SOE just sells me off after paying for the game since launch (even multiple accounts). EQ2 is, despite all its flaws, still the best MMO out there IMO. Nowhere else have i found the right blend of solo/group/raid content, crafting system and housing that EQ2 offers, so my current position is that I will still subscribe, even after this.
And even though we only have second-hand or hearsay info on the privacy breaches that Alaplaya has commited, we somehow forget that SOE was breached, personal information was stolen, including creditcard info, and it took WEEKS for SOE to inform the violated customers?? Thats not a trackrecord that can be positively compared to just about anything.
Also, I hope that with the company based in Europe, the data protection / privacy laws it will operate under will be stricter than the US laws, but that might just be me trying to find a silver lining.
I read all the excuses used by soe staff. I read we have a healthy player base, and this is not about money. I even read a post we are not getting out of the game business. I read they want to grow in Europe and had to have a partner to do it, why did they not look into what a good partner would have been. I read there will be no power items. How many times has soe told us one thing but then did something different. I don’t know what to believe any more, none of this makes any business since.
This is about trust, and or the lack of it for me.
I will miss my friends from Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and yes even France.
Brasse sounds very reasonable in her posts, but I do wonder concerning her comment that a major company like Sony, even a division, needs help from a partner to run a European customer base? Not to mention the fact that the new partner has clearly engaged in amatuerish/sloppy business practices in the past. Sounds very small potatoes to me.
The worldwide protest against region locking at least changed one part of the fundamental deal, so everyone who spoke up can give themselves a pat on the back. I think they just can’t change anything else, since the core idea was to sell off the European customer base to a partner.
My gut feeling is that they will have difficulties tracking military and other unique IP’s (because they said it was simple), and will also have trouble doing the back end work to make sure European customers playing on US servers and vice versa get credited to PSS1. The result of that frustration on the partner relationship might be very negative for the customer base in the future.
It’s just not a good business decision, despite the fact that it might have seemed win/win to get a partner and give the European customer base more localized service. The loss of trust is the most damaging thing of all that came out of this deal.
I am glad Feldon is giving people an alternative path to continue playing and paying with SOE. Thumbs up Feldon!
This crap gets old.
The worst thing about this, as my broken record repeats, is that this was probably ordained at the parent company level–I’d wager there were many folks at SOE itself that saw this train wreck coming. Sadly, even if somebody came out and outlined the full, gospel truth of everything that happened behind the scenes, the fiascos and lies of the past would make it impossible for anyone to trust anything that was said.
I’m still here for my guild. We’ve already lost guildies to this travesty, though. SOE is really, really making it hard to continue. But then, that’s a road I’ve been down to the bitter end before, in other contexts. So on I go…
My opinion, i heard enough horror stories from RL friends with creditcard trouble. Now it’s easy to recall money (at least here, if i make a request so far i got it all back)to not wanting to give my private information to pss1. If that means no more eq2 that’s what it will be. I love the game, left a few times but always came back. Now i am playing eq1 since it’s still outside the loop but my guess that will change someday too. Old Republic isn’t a game for me, maybe i jump back to good old anarchy online.
You can pile all the sugar coating you want on crap, but it is still crap. Since most of us never expected much from SoE in this matter (after it was announced), despite all their new found promises, we won’t be very disappointed.
GW2 releases in 6 days 🙂
What about Travel? Military? Expats?
Some quotes from Brasse:
EU accounts will simply be determined by IP, and we already have a series of follow-up questions on that, such as what happens when someone from outside the EU travels there and tries to log in on a laptop (that will be me later this year!), what happens with people who move in or out of the EU region, etc.
I have a query in for those who are traveling.
I responded to an earlier post on this topic, but it bears repeating to say that yes, US military bases are considered to be US IPs (they have unique IPs, easy to isolate and list).
Which I proved was bullshit shortly there after. And we still haven’t got an answer back since.
feel lucky all customer support for SOE hasn’t been moved to Bangalore, yet. That would’ve been a cost cutting move. Also, byebye to your personal details when that happens.
THAT would have been a cost cutting exercise. THIS is a revenue increasing tactic. I’m sure it won’t net positive results, either, unless the PS folks increase the customer base.
SOE could’ve reached out to the corporate marketers in the EU, but that’s probably outsourced and funded by game publishers (for PS3 gear).
So, is the sky REALLY falling or is this concern second or third hand from a friend of a blogger’s third cousin’s nephew named “chicken little”? Maybe the world IS ending, instead, because alternative would mean the community overreacted (again).
… and Feldon brings spoofing to the unwashed masses… lulz
Striinger,
Can I have your stuff since you sound like you’re quitting?
Leave Feldon along, He come to the states at least once a year and he has to wash-up for that.
Feldon, why would you think THAT? I think it’s awesome that you’re bringing vpn to people who can’t spell it! 🙂 If anyone thought I was bagging Feldon, they totally misunderstood. 😉
I wonder if SOE will be sharp enough to check your ip throughout gameplay, or if they’ll just check you when you authenticate (i.e. zoning or logging in).
If it’s the latter, you can just trap SOME traffic to use the vpn (i.e. traffic hitting the authentication server). That means you would still get good speed, no latency hit, and the vpn doesn’t really have to do too much.
My point with the outsource v. license stuff, is that SOE makes no real money if these guys don’t bring in the new customers they said they could because all of the customers they are moving over were already paying them (well, maybe not all, but most,anyway).
Sony and Pro Sieben Sat makes a deal over everyones head, including the European rights of SOE sold off to PSS1 Games and this is what happened.
Yes PSS1 have some shady past but so does SOE. I think its wrong to judge something beforehand, so I wouldn´t jump to the conclusion that everything will be horrible with the new company and foremost – I still love the game I´m playing and the people I play it with. I´m in EU but play on a US server.
I TRY to see it positive (altough it isn´t always easy – coming from a old SWG player…) and will continue to do so until I know, 100% sure, what is gonna happen and how that will affect me and those I play with. The only thing that would´ve kept me from continuing, was if they decided to keep the region IP lock for servers (most idiotic idea ever).
Cause most of your posts are SOE sucks. EQ2 sucks. The players suck. Everyone sucks.
Inflammatory blather for the most part. Then again a lot of the comments on EQ2Wire make me cringe these days.
@Kong: “The only thing that would´ve kept me from continuing, was if they decided to keep the region IP lock for servers (most idiotic idea ever).”
Servers will not be locked. You can access whatever server you want no matter who you pay your money to. So far.
IPs will now determine who you pay the money to and, therefore:
-who will service your account
-who protects your sensitive information
-which SOE games you can play with one payment
-which kind of funny money you get to buy/spend
-the things you can buy with said funny money
-the forum you get to post on (that one they’re still waffling on answering)
-which company’s GM will “assist” you in game
-which “holidays” are celebrated in game
But otherwise nothing is changing! So far.
Piestro has lied about no power items. SOE is definitely considering them. They are opening the door with the latest ingame poll about self rez, self power and self helath potions.
@stringer — I think SOE made the money by selling the division, rather than selling it to make more money with new customers. They also made money by not having to pay Euro GMs and others to deal with a specialized customer base. PSS1 expects to make money with new customers, not SOE, as I understand the deal. Now, with the loss of region locking, they had to restructure how PSS1 was going to get paid, I assume.
Other than completely ignoring the fact that the customers wouldn’t like the change (duh!), it was a good deal for both sides in the beginning, I am sure.
I think SOE made the money by selling the division, rather than selling it to make more money with new customers.
More like a trade, MMO rights (and probably something else that we aren’t focusing on here) in exchange for the on-demand video distribution channels SCE (the parent company of SOE) is getting. It’s like a baseball trade, where we’re the ‘players to be named later’.
I am still waiting for their response about wether or not said access includes posting access.
While EQ2 was handled like a seperate service, EQ2X players could not post on the Live forums. EQ2X got treated like another game, despite content being 99.9% the same as Live and reality being that EQ2X only needed a seperate support forum the rest being the same.
They could access them, but not post. I can easilly see this sort of thing happen here, where the made-up canyon of difference is being wedged in between geographic continents instead.
I fear Europeans will end up with lackluster gameforums, and that the division of English speaking players will water out forum activity cross all forums be it SOE or ProSiebenSat1.
Support forums in different languages I see some benefits of, but having 2-3 English speaking official forums with the same game content discussions makes no sense.
Some quotes from Brasse:
This is not correct. The only thing on US military bases that are “unique” are if the IPs are used for OFFICAL Military Business. You are not allowed to play games on these IPs. Every military person, DOD, family member, and contractor are required to use whatever local internet provider is in their area. So in Germany a german provider, Italy an italian provider. So their IPs are still going to come up as a IP address from Europe. Is Sony going to be paying fines for those that get caught with the services that mask your IP address and make someone think that it is from the US? I really doubt it!
Any idea regarding the legal side of refusing to do business with Europe ?
Talking to lawyers rarely improves a situation like this.
I am a member of a mostly German/EU guild, now some of the members in our guild are upset about the PSS1 deal but most of them says “PSS1 is a well known TV media company they are probably neither better or worse than SOE to manage accounts and safety” And they are happy that everyone will be able to play where they want to. There is too much “The sky is falling” in my opinion, SOE has been a disaster business wise for some time, I hope Sony sells it to an owner that actually has some business sense. I suggest that many go and read “Who moved my Cheese” to get some perspective. You are free to dislike PSS1 but the whole idea of “everything must be as it always have been” is dangerous, Sony clearly has no idea what to do with SOE, Smedley can not/are not allowed to change things so a sale (and I hope there will be one) of SOE is in our best interest as players.
I have done some international business and seen some contracts of manufacturing and so on, they usually contains very heavy fines for non compliance. If my estimate of the quality of Sony lawyers vs PSS1 laywers are true Sony has no way out of this, PSS1 has been buying companies for years, Sony has just been able to keep itself going, and the quality of lawyers seens to reflect this, and since it was a deal about EU distribution the case will most likely be held in a German court. Can Feldon put up a poll on how many here that actually believe that Sony bothered to hire an attorney that understood German Law before making this deal?
What I find odd is that US-based players really don’t care or even know too much about this. At least it seems that way.
Looking at EQ2Flames showed just how ignorant people are of the whole debacle.
I like EQ2 as a game, but I have never trusted sony.
It is a known fact that any game that does not have a R M T problem will fail and sony does not have this problem.
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Yes, but now our account info will be held in 2 places (SOE AND this crappy German company) instead of 1, making it twice as likely that someone is going to screw up…