Feldon Dave “SmokeJumper” Georgeson has posted a bit of a Twitter followup after his rather abrupt pronouncement that we should only expect three Game Updates this year, with the next one not arriving until sometime in April:
Funny how when you come back from relaxing, you always run real hard to catch up. Does this make sense? Really? Humanz iz odd.
DoV, Book 2, Chapter 1! (GU 63) : Withered Lands and Skyshrine. A big new overland, group instances, a contested dungeon, raids, and more!
Sometimes things go right. And then because of that, they keep going right because that becomes normal. This is a good time for SOE.
Is it me? I don’t get it…
lol thats his spin on it, as if nothing was wrong. How can the be going right, if the content was already suposed to be made but they pushed it back 2 months?
Sounds like he’s high.
I think he used the word “right” where he meant to be using “wrong”
He has a total disconnect between of the player base vs his reality, or am I the only one who thinks that way.
Good news! The chocolate ration has been increased from 12 grams to 10!
This man has absolutely no clue about what his player base is thinking/feeling.
Nobody has even gotten into the raid version of Plane of War. I’m all for new content, but what’s the point in releasing it when only a hand full of players/guilds have made it into Hard Mode Drunder?
I’ve been here since before the start and for my money it’s the best it’s ever been. I don’t raid, though, and never have, so maybe my perspective is different.
From SJ’s POV, he has the numbers and we don’t. He knows how many people are playing and how much they are paying and we don’t. Since SoE is never going to release figures on either player numbers or profitability we really have no idea whether any of their MMOs are trending up or down in either.
Can I haz cheesburger?
…
I am not feeling sorry for him, despite having to work real hard after being on vacation. Arabel, that was brilliant.
I think he needs a couple of weeks off..
He should run for the Republican presidential candidate . . . He has about just as much disconnect as the people he purports to lead.
Weird person indeed.
Now I don’t know what to do. Grumble or laugh hard.
@Bhagpuss: Oh, you don’t need the numbers to know what SJ knows–all you have to do is look around and you can see that in most cases the people making all these complaints are still playing and paying–and the overlooked truth is that if you’re still subscribing, you’re as satisfied as they need you to be.
Hey everyone! You want SOE to listen, you have to actually stop giving them money. To a businessman, your subscription is a stamp of approval that speaks louder than any forum post. Ask yourself each month–have they earned your money? Do you want to reward them for the path they’re taking?
@ bhagpuss; I am gland you are happy with the game, but I must ask what do you do in the game? What ever it is you do that OK and you’ll never see me knock it b/c to each there own. But unless you just Decorate you house/pre-made dungeon I can’t see how you can be the most happiest you’ve ever been. Again there is nothing wrong with that if that is what you do.
@ Claviarm; Most of the people that still subscribe that is unhappy subscribe only because there is nothing out there for us that we like. So between nothing and EQ2 we chose EQ2. We can’t do the FTP EQ2 crap because the things we like in the game require a sub so we sub. So your logic on quit subbing fails.
@Landiin: Both Claviarm and you are right IMO. There is a reason why a lot of people are subscribing despite being unhappy; on the other hand, I doubt SOE really cares that you are unhappy as long as you pay.
Exactly. No matter what reasoning one uses to justify the subscription, SOE is going to read it as success and continue accordingly.
People don’t stop paying even when they’re unhappy. SOE knows this. That’s why they can do whatever they want.
So, despite all the games that have launched in the past two years, nothing comes close to this one, despite its flaws? Why is that? Are game companies just not designing games well anymore? Everyone wants to make a “WoW killer” — yet even WoW fails to satisfy, now.
It might be that there is no game design that will bring back a fantasy game that is fun to play, has depth throughout the levels, and isn’t deeply flawed. It just might not be out there. Or, marketing research has shown that people actually won’t pay for a million dollar title that requires a time committment and an attention span from players, so everyone is designing for the short term “casino model.”
Even if it’s possible to fix this game, and it certainly is with man hours and maybe a larger budget, they have chosen not to do so for whatever the reason. The bottom line is, perhaps the MMORPG that the vets remember has come to an end, and it just won’t exist any more.
Claviarm is correct, as long as we stay, SOE will continue on the path it has chosen. I do hold out hope, however, that in this competitive market, they will at least do a little listening to an unhappy customer base and fix what they can.
We vets can put up with the faults because we know how to work around it, and with the ftp model you can choose how to pay. If you don’t play that much(raiders) I see no reason why they can’t just go silver, and buy unlockers. (raiders buy sc for plat as is) The bugs mostly would put off new players which is a shame, because it gives eq2 the image of a crappy ftp game that bugs are just a way of life. It’s a sad state that everything in the game feels rushed. (dungeon finder… although this thing was on test for a while so i have to question if were hitting the limits of the game engine)
@Kwill it’s a fact that most gamers are 35ish which means that they have a family which means that they have very limited free time, but have more income to spend. In eq2 this shift means that there should be less content, but that content should be really good(the “casino model”). We have in fact seen less content although many would argue that it hasn’t been that good(I suppose that if it’s aimed at people with less time it could be good? *shrug*).
So if you look at the move to ftp it kinda supports this model of people with less time to play, but with more money to spend.
I don’t like where the game is going, but if i go down to silver then i could justify playing another mmo at the same time as this one, and come back whenever there’s new content.
Anyway, about smokejumper, I believe the expression “talk is cheap” works here. He should shut his mouth, and let someone else talk because no one likes him anymore.
Exactly Rocky, I have 2 raid geared toons that I play, fully mastered, 300 AA’s and a couple thousand worthless plat for repairs. I went to silver and only pay for unlockers. It’s working just fine for me since I basically only log in for raids anyways.
@Kwill: I have a guess why nothing better is coming along, and why existing games seem to be going downhill. It’s just a guess, but here goes:
Back in the day, games were made by individuals or independent groups of designers who loved what they did and made games to be fun. Earning money was either completely secondary, or seen as a direct result of making the game enjoyable.
Today, games are made by corporations, designed from the beginning for monetization, and the rest is secondary. They’ve realized that “good” and “profitable” aren’t necessarily the same thing*, and they favor the latter. If you’re lucky, you get devs who love the game and want it to be good regardless of profit margin, but those devs are still subject to the profiteer’s orders.
(* Simple example: Setting the rate of advancement to X would be the most enjoyable for players. Setting it instead to X/2 and selling double advancement potions for cash would be less fundamentally enjoyable but more profitable, because many players will shell out the money rather than look for a better game. This is, by the way, why cash shops are the devil–they provide incentives for the designers to make the game worse.)
@Claviarm that’s the problem, we used to have a dev staff that cared, All but one of those has moved on, and I sure that that last one get enough pressure from the sp, and head of the division he just does whats asked.He likes it where it is at and loves his paydays. Nobody rocks the boat when they are content.
It used to be companies cared to make a good game, but somewhere that changed, the problem is really there is not much on the market for us to turn our attention too, so we keep on giving soe our cash because for the most part nothing out there is better. SOe started testing the water when the store first showed up, there’s been a lot of topics over the years, but the store grew on folks and look where it is now.
As long as folks are willing to give soe their cash, it confirms to soe that these business practices are ok. I would say folks need to stop giving them their cash, but I said that when the store first showed up. Folks love their game, folks love fluff. I made the choice not to buy the aod xpac, and when my sub runs out I will be downgraded to whatever they call it, but that’s ok I gave up raiding, and now I just log in to say high to folks and log back off.
As a bit of a vet of MMO’s and who deals with complex business cases daily, my guess is that the whingers simply aren’t the target audience anymore. Strategic plans are made years ahead of time and the target”vets” are getting old.
SOE would have to be looking toward your kids, now, or maybe younger. EQ Next won’t be for us and maintaining three EQ games doesn’t make sense.
As stated above, SOE has the REAL numbers, and the numbers DO matter. The farther into the future you look the more important the trends (not current performance) are…and we’re dying out or committing ourselves to the real world.
You gotta be kidding me.
Vacation is over mate. In your shoes I would start working instead of lulzing @ the player base.
You don’t HAVE to play an MMO. They all suck right now. Stop rewarding failure. As long as you reward them they have no incentive to change.
Quote Claviarm:
(* Simple example: Setting the rate of advancement to X would be the most enjoyable for players. Setting it instead to X/2 and selling double advancement potions for cash would be less fundamentally enjoyable but more profitable, because many players will shell out the money rather than look for a better game. This is, by the way, why cash shops are the devil–they provide incentives for the designers to make the game worse.)
This example does not work. If X was the rate of advancement at the start of the game, then today’s rate is 2X or 3X, not X/2. N.B. the vitality bonus, the vet item (free) to reset that bonus, and the general ease of levelling by which a level 90 Beastlord showed up less than a week after introduction.
So who is that advancement potion designed for? The casual player who has friends that play more and have higher levels, and who would like to catch up; and is willing to pay for the privilege of making the most of his play time.
Sure, that level 90 BL probably had potions, free or purchased, and was power levelled by his guild, but allowing someone to exploit potions like that is no reason to deny them to others. I have probably a dozen unused potions from the early days of the game, on all characters, unused because I’m not really interested in fast levelling and power gaming.
Potions (and the cash shop in general) don’t make the game worse, they just give someone a chance to keep up with his friends. Do I care that they allow 90 in a week or less? Not at all, because that guy is playing a different game than I am, and our paths will never cross in any meaningful way.
That was a general example to demonstrate a principle, not meant to represent EQ2 in its current state.
@Clav
Some of us got your point AND understand. Vitality is a good example: make vitality go away much faster when grinding, then throw a vitality restore pot on there that returns it but increases the rate it drops more. I’m sure the mechanic would be chalked up to curbing abuse via financial disincentive.
As for keeping up with friends that play and do more, that’s far less credible and likely than keeping up with others in general, friend or not. Arguments about earning in-game status versus buying is lost on those players.
The shift, though, is away from gear or skill as THE epeen measure. It’s more often plat, now, since it’s harder to buy a LOT of it that most gear or AA’s.
WE know where he has been for the past month. EQ just annouced they are going free to play. I knew that was headed our way. I just wonder if Vangaurds next.
http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/news_article.vm?id=524183&month=012012
Did I call that, or what (on another thread commentary, not this one)? I feel smrt. =)
Sadly, I wish I hadn’t been right. Maybe it will work for EQ, who knows.
On the topic of the marketplace, I’ve always feared and been of the opinion that it’s an inherent conflict of interest. “Why do this, when we can do that instead AND make way more money?!” At first I was kind of shocked to see that they still offer double XP days when it would seem to conflict with their desire to sell potions. However it didn’t take me long to observe that they quite likely sell MORE potions on double XP days than any other day. So double XP days actually make them lots of money!
Landiin: “So your logic on quit subbing fails.”
No it doesn’t. Your argument has no impact on it one way or another. Just because you don’t feel like finding another game (or argue that there is no other game to play), it does NOT change the fact that the only way gamers will actually achieve effective change is to stop paying for the game. Unfortunately, most of us never will. And has been said many times, if we keep paying for the game, the implication is that we like the game as it is. No company anymore takes serious any threats about “We’ll stop playing if you don’t change this,” because gamers have proven time and time again they just don’t have the guts to do go through with it.
We’re like drug addicts. You can bitch at the dealer all you want about his prices or service, but he’s just going to smile and not change anything because he knows you’ll be back next week (and he knows you’ll just bitch again too – while you’re handing him your money). The only way to effect a change would be to really boycott them. Not that ghey boycott people tried before (they already have your money, dummies, so refusing to play is actually benefiting them with freed up bandwidth!). An effective boycott would require to actually stop PAYING for the game. Good luck finding a majority of the gaming population to do that one with you. And for the record, I’m not pointing fingers here. I’m just as guilty.
Steve: “Stop rewarding failure.”
This is the best summation of it that I’ve ever read.
Badcat: “It used to be companies cared to make a good game, but somewhere that changed.”
I am of the opinion it changed with WoW. Every other game company at the time looked at Blizzard then, with cartoon-like $$ in their eyes and their tongues rolled out across the table. Blizzard introduced the world of MMOs to a whole new crowd. It used to be that MMOs were just for serious gamers (and even the less-serious gamers of those days were still pretty serious gamers by the today’s standards). It was then that MMOs turned into little more than fancy social applications with a gaming interface included. MMOs aren’t targeted at gamers anymore; they’re targeted (believe it or not) at NON-gamers.
The main reason I quit EQ2, and I came really close after the hack, was this PSS1 Deal. I have read from sources and people in the community who I trust that this company has a history of bad customer service and quite open to hacking. I was really getting into it and then this started happening. I dont want Alaplaya getting their hands on my CC info and personal stuff. to everyone who is happy to go with PSS1 or stay with sony on the american servers good luck and I hope you enjoy the game but for me, my partner and one of our friends, its the last straw