Feldon At last year’s Fan Faire, I found out that work was being done on a program/script/tool to help the developers create items for EQ2. As with any game development, any number of little tools and scripts are created and passed around the office to help take some of the tedium out of certain repetitive tasks.
At the time, it was explained to me as a tool that could be used to whip out a bunch of Treasured and low level Legendary gear. Why? So that more time and attention could be spent creating unique higher level Legendary and Fabled gear with unique effects. It was hoped that we could see items with interesting procs and effects like those popular items from Shard of Hate, as well as the better raid drops from Shadow Odyssey, and even drawing some inspiration from Avatar Gear (although maybe not THAT powerful).
However with the cookie cutter, cut-and-paste itemization of Velious which seems to pigeonhole players into the 4 main archetypes with few exceptions, players are looking for answers and latched onto a post by SmokeJumper confirming the existence of said “itemization tool”.
Cocytus wrote:
SJ’s post lead me to believe they think it’s ok to develop a universal “system” to design all items – this is NOT OK.
We as a playerbase realize that it takes more time to craft items, from solo items, to group items, to raid items, to PVP items. But we do not want items created by an item generator.
We want items created by a person (preferably not he-who-shall-not-be-named) that put some thought into the item itself. What can make this item cool? Desirable? Unique? Etc. Or, conversely…Shall this be one of the more generic inconsequential items just there for people who need the minute upgrade as they’re using dated gear, or whatever?
SmokeJumper responded:
The items are not designed by software. The new system just creates reliable stat and benefit guidelines for us to use when creating items for an area. In other words, it helps us plan progression power. That’s it.
We agree that things got a little too regulated this time. That will loosen up in the future.
When asked if “the future” means the next expansion, new zones as part of Velious, or when, SmokeJumper replied:
We’ll adjust before the next GU, so yes, that includes the new zones of DoV.
Players understandably responded with frustration.
Quopo posted:
I have no doubt that Silius had his work cut out for him with trying to make sense of EQ2 itemization. Fact is, however, that there have been several glaring issues with this new automated system that should have been worked out long before you subjected your userbase to a constant stream of seemingly random changes. Stop dancing around the issue and playing word games with us and let us know what to expect. Nerfing a handful of items every patch is just pissing people off… pull off the bandaid and be done with it. Itemization has always been a hotspot in EQ and EQ2, back to the “Fire Rytan Fan Club” days of EQ. That should give you some idea of just how important it is to get it right, instead of fumbling your way through it.
Gaige posted:
Silius made itemization completely boring. In Destiny of Velious there is ONE item per slot per archetype. ONE. So you get one “set” of Easymode (EM) Raid gear and one “set” of Hardmode (HM) Raid gear and that’s that outside of War Runes of which you can only ever use a max of six.
So if you raid HM mobs and kill everything as a scout you get exactly one choice of:
- Cloak,
- Breastplate
- Helm
- Shoulders
- Wrists
- Gloves
- Legs
- Boots
- Belt
- Two weapons (either 4.0 or 6.0 delay)
- Bow
- One Wrist (other is MIA)
- Two Earrings
- Two Rings
- No Neck (as of yet)
There are no options. That is what you get. Your only choice of gear as a scout is what delay weapons to use.That is totally bland and boring itemization. There isn’t even bard-centric scout loot anymore. A scout is a scout is a scout. Which means at the end of DoV HM raiders will be exactly the same in every single slot outside War Runes, which will probably end up cookie cutter too.
So not only is there no exciting itemization in DoV, you’re saying that there won’t be any in the future since you’re using this new “system”.
I’ll let you in on a secret: The best most popular items since launch, items that have lasted through multiple expansions, were exciting and a little bit overpowered. That is what players like. If you think going from a wrist with 10ma and 6.6 bonus/pot to a wrist with 12ma and 7.2 bonus/pot is exciting itemization, well you have another thing coming.
I don’t think anyone should be fired but I don’t think watering itemization down into a singular choice per archetype is an excellent job either.
Ironcleaver weighed in:
Every item (in general (easy raid)) seems to have 110 to both primary stats, 4000 elemental, 3500 arcane, 3500 Nox resists, then 5 (or 6) potency and crit bonus; most if not all jewelery, cloaks, and belts have this as their foundation. After the foundation stats comes the items “uniqueness” which might be 3 block, 8 multi attack, 3 strickthough, ect… With hard mode gear being slighting better accross the board by roughly 10% or so (but bassically the same item in the end) and some with a added red slot.
This is what people are refering to as borring and bland. These items were clearly designed and build by an algorithm but what we’re looking for is that “personal touch”.
I really, really hate the adornment system. It’s just bland and boring. Gaige is spot on. There’s nothing wrong with a little bit of imbalance in the name of FUN! I don’t see it changing though, since it would be so much work.
Diablo random generating item have more personality than DoV items…
Feldon knows a lot more about this stuff, and has more recent information, but back about four years ago or so I can attest that the itemization position was one they had trouble filling because it was boring, players complained a lot (as the poster metioned, “fire Rytan”), and it took a really detail-oriented person to do the job. At that time, they had a spreadsheet to do it, but it was not scripted to much of an extent. I can see why they automated, possibly beacuse it might make gear design more consistent, as SJ said (some of you may remember when the itemization changes didn’t make any sense at all on some gear, again, “fire Rytan”), but it’s a shame when it goes the other way, to generic boredom.
Unique items are a hige part of what makes the game interesting, and making it consistent does not add flavor to the game. How about interesting and appropriate as well as consistent in progression?
I definitely understand this better now, rather than reading through 20 pages of comments — thanks Feldon.
I for one would like the old stats back, where I could customize my toon the way I found it fun to do.
As a templar I had lots of choices about gathering strength items for melee DPS or intelligence items for spell casting. Even a combo between the 2 which was very hard to pull off. Yes this is for soloing purposes.
Now, if I want to do melee DPS, I cannot gather items anymore with DA chance on them, that’s for fighters and scouts only, sad.
Even if I desided the blue stats was worth the loss of wisdom, all items are restricted to archtype now as well.
I also had my fun getting scout gear as the agility added avoidence and some SF pieces had nice procs on them..
I raid on my Templar, mostly as MT healer.
My play-time is limited and I don’t have the time nor the desire to make an alt. Customizing my Templar for solo/DPS purposes was my “alt” fun.
Sure, adorns will customize gear, but why force us to get 2 identical complete sets of the same gear just to stick in different adorns. That’s the sad part for me.