95 thoughts on “EQ2 Developer Layoffs: FYreflyte, Xelgad, Lyndro, Endymion, Gnobrin, Jeff Bard, Afista”

  2. So is EQ2 headed for closure? Set adrift without new content?
    Or they be re-framing it somehow?

    The firings weren’t a shock after the takeover, but it’s not like firing people makes anyone any money per se. The new owners must have seen some value in SOE/Daybreak somewhere.

    Any rumors or informed speculation of the future of current titles?

  4. The eq2 dev staff is already bare bones and they’re cutting more? I really hope it’s not true, but it’s starting to sound like the beginning of the end for eq2.. and eqnext is NOT a game for most of us die-hard eq2 players.

  5. Some are speculating EQN itself may get axed and even Landmark. I think that would be crazy and can’t envisage it myself, but after the last couple of weeks I wouldn’t be surprised.

    1. Everything is possible at the moment I think…even axing EQN and distibuting the resources among the other games; that’s where many of the people came from after all. But not very likely at all.

  7. I was not overjoyed when the first announcements were made about the acquisition; but given that Sony has been looking to unload SoE for some time as it did with their computer division, it made sense. There was even some hope in my mind that a company was looking to invest in a long running franchise while branching out into consoles. Not exactly my thing, but hey, if it works, after all they bought it for the jewels in the crown, the EQ franchise (or so I thought).

    Now it feels more like they had to take the EQ franchise to get the other stuff/rights in the SoE stable. We’re the red headed step child that came with the trophy wife. Nothing will change, just more resources might have just meant “No more changes to the games, just more resources for the main company”.

    Having been through it with Vanguard, it’s all starting to feel all too familiar.

  8. None of this is a surprise. I totally expected this long ago and I’m sorry to see a good decade run of one of the best games out there come to an end. It’s held my interest and money for 10 years but I’m afraid this is the end of the line.

    Oh, I’m not going to say that this is the end of EQ2, but my intuition is telling me that EQ2 will languish for awhile while more players leave; some server merges; more promos to get you to purchase more SC (or whatever it will be called), but it will eventually be sold off again.

    I’m really not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, but it seems to be a death knell for EQ2.

    Too bad I don’t have any money…I already gave it all to SOE. 🙁

  12. “It will be business as usual and all SOE games will continue on their current path of development and operation.”

    I knew that was BS when I read it.

    Good luck guys you did awesome work and us players appreciate it.

  13. Heya Feldon…looks like Akil locked down the privacy on that Facebook post [the link doesn’t go through and the last public thing on his page now is from February 2nd]. Dunno if that changes things, but thought you’d want to know…thanks for keeping up posted about everything, as much as it sucks. :^(

  14. Moorgard!? For anyone following eqn, he was the Vhalen of that game. (Not to mention his hard work on eq2). Love his tidbits into lore and his interaction with the community. I mean he was the backbone of that story and you could just tell how invested he was!

    The names I see on the list tells me that the people responsible for these layoffs had little insight to the importance of the people they are letting go. They have gone after some of the longest employed (which prob means the most payed) which is never good for morale but especially among a community that is close with these people.

    My view last week was glass half full and staying positive. Today, however, that glass is in pieces all over the floor.

  15. Well, this makes me really sad, as I only see the end coming to the only game I’m really interested in playing. The end of EQ2 marks my retirement from the gaming industry, as I will not be starting up any new games in the future.

    There truly has been no match to SWG, FreeRealms, and EQ2 (I didn’t play any of the other SOE games, so I can’t compare those, but I have tried multiple games from other companies, and none have compared). I know that FreeRealms target player base was quite different from the other two games, but it was something I could play with my grandchildren, and I was very sorry to see it sunsetted.

    All I can say is thank you for a wonderful decade of entertainment, despite the ups and downs that came with the poor decision-making problems from the corporate side of things. It looks like Daybreak is destined to make the same mistakes (or maybe they already had this planned before takeover).

    The art and development teams deserve a huge pat on the back for all they have done to keep things rolling as long as they have. I’m truly sorry to see the announcement of these layoff’s, of people who truly mattered to the company. I wish you all the best for a much brighter future.

  19. Endymion easily felt like the only dev who really cared about the game and responded to players, fixed bugs, and implemented player ideas on a regular basis. Best communicated dev this game has had in quite a few years. Bye Friendymion. If you read this, let me know if you do get in on another game company; I would check out whatever game no matter the genre if you were on the development team.

    1. I’ll be hanging around on #eq2wire for a while at least. 🙂

      Despite my proclamations above that EQ2 would be my only professional experience in the games industry, enough companies have gotten in touch with me that I might find an interesting opportunity in there somewhere. I reeeeally don’t want to leave San Diego, but I’m still young and have time to mess around, and I can always come back here so might as well keep an open mind.

      Aside from that, I have some game projects I plan to pursue independently. Those aren’t really worth talking about until I have something more solid though, but I plan to start on them after a few more days of doing nothing.

  21. Saw somewhere else thatit is mostly EQ-related people that are let go.

    Both EQ1 and EQ2 are past their prime life and basically are somewhere on the slope leading to shutdown. This seems to more or less put them into maintenance mode to milk as much money from them as possible with very little new content and minimum operational expenses. Just like Vanguard had for 2-3 years before being closed.

    Also note that there also could be internal staffing reassignments, so the staffing hit on eq1/eq2 could be bigger than just the layoffs.

    A guess: No more expansions for neiher eq1 nor eq2. And that will certainly nail the coffin shut.

      1. Why, he gets to look like a asshat! What a prize!

        As for the huge changes and layoffs: Wow. I just wish Sony had the balls to cull some of the upper management years ago rather than letting it drag on and letting someone else do the dirty work for them. I’m sorry to hear that a lot of good people are being let go, but, gotta say, I will not shed a tear that Dave will be shown the door. His influence, combined with Smed’s, have utterly driven the studio into the ground over the years. Had changes been made earlier by Sony, SOE probably would be in a much better position, rather than in the sorry state it is now.

        1. Totally agree, the whole shift to free to play was a huge mistake. Giving up subscriptions was the beginning of the end, once you give people stuff for free they just keep whining for more. There still remains a core of folk that really appreciate the EQ franchise, and those are the folks I feel sorry for.

          1. EQ2 is very profitable and F2P is no longer a drain on resources with all the bonuses they gave to Subscribers. The vast majority of the people playing EQ2 are subscribers. EQ2 was doing quite well and there was absolutely no need for layoffs on the EQ2 team.

          3. Feldon, out of curiosity is EQ doing well financially? How many developers are dedicated just to it? I noticed no one on any of these lists worked specifically just on EQ. I also saw that Elidroth is still with the company & didn’t see Jchan’s name in the list of those laid off anywhere either. I wish there was a similar site dedicated to EQ with all the great info you have for & about EQ 2, thank you for doing a great job & here’s to hoping you continue for years to come.

          4. We don’t cover EQ, but there were similar cuts to both teams. The numbers haven’t been released. Sad that there isn’t an EQ-related site covering this stuff.

          5. The shift to FTP was the only reason this game has stayed around as long as it has with still regular content additions. At the time it happened, this game was at its all time low as far as I’m concerned. Smokejumper was brought on to help salvage the game and at least in a way he succeeded.

            That said, I was not then nor am I now a fan of his. Frankly, his move to the EQN team made me extremely nervous for the final product of a game I’ve looked forward to since it was teased in 2010. Will I personally miss him? No. But for a lot of people he was the enthusiasm behind EQN and LM and his absence will surely have a negative effect.

            My main hope for EQ2, if/when it’s finally given no hope, is that at the very least they will consolidate servers and throw it into maintance mode. Even though my interst in EQ2’s direction waned years ago and I barely play outside of holiday events, the thought of my characters and their worlds blinking out is a hard pill to swallow.

        2. How was he being an asshat? He’s being realistic. This was going to happen no matter what. Fact that people actually believed in Smedley’s words on the first day or all was going to be well were fooling themselves.

          Speaking of whether Sony would have done anything…how much stock did they own in SoE? I have a feeling SCEA would have made changes the second SoE transferred over from Sony Pictures years ago, but there seemed to be something that barred them from influencing the company. Smedley kept hiring and hiring his friends or people who agreed with him constantly. This type of stuff wouldn’t fly in the average game studio under Sony.

      3. I enjoy watching you eat crow. It drives me wild to watch ignorance in action, be it here, the forums, or in-game.

        Tons of people with no corporate experience, no advanced education, or really any interaction with the “professional” world show up to display their blind allegiance to mindless slogans and platitudes. It’s just vulgar. I cannot fathom living with such skewed perception each day.

        I appreciate what Feldon does. I appreciate his site. I greatly appreciate EQ2u and all of it’s functions. He and I disagree on who content should be directed at, but I agree with him on most of his views on the game.

        In this case, it isn’t so much “necessity” as it was “inevitability.” Lay-offs happen because they make the books look great instantly. They’re not chosen based on chaff or dead weight on the team. Those firings are allocated by whim, likely by Smedley (who should have been fired years ago). My fear is that this will follow the usual acquisition procedure, which starts with an immediate boost to the books, followed by a carefully combed set of firings. Then we’ll start to see immediate policy differences followed by actual changes in development.

        I expect the marketplace to take an up-front-in-your-face role now. This is an investment company. They don’t care if we don’t like pay-to-win. They care if they get money and ONLY if they get money. If pay-to-win draws in immediate gains, they will absolutely go down that route. Investment firms do not make purchases like these for long-term gain. They will try to recover their costs and hit a projected “pay-off.” Once that mark is hit, they will turn around and resell. That will restart the process, but likely put the game back into the hands of the gaming industry. My expectation is to be purchased by a giant like Activision, Ubisoft, or EA.

        1. I hope you are correct in that a big publisher/developer buys at least the EQ franchise & turns it around. Just imagine what a company like Blizzard, Bioware or Bethesda could have done with the EQ franchise compared to what Smed has done to it for the last 10+ years.

          1. Blizzard (prior to Activision acquisition), Bioware (prior to EA acquisition), and Bethesda (current) would have been an amazing route to go.

            Sadly we didn’t get that kind of love. =(

          2. Bioware is overrated. Best thing they made prior to their acquisition was BG2 and NW. Then KOTOR came along and what we got were games that only held up because of their multiple dialogue choices they offered. Gameplay for things like KOTOR, ME, and JE were all equally flawed and horribly unbalanced on what you chose. Yet people loved those games because of the writing.

            I would have loved to see more Singleplayer games based off of EQ. Champions of Norrath proved that SoE could make profit off of spinoff titles.

          3. Activision has never had an active role in any of Blizzard’s development decisions…ever.

            Vivendi – Blizzard’s primary share holder & parent company did however (to some degree) but only until recently.

            Blizzard’s largest & most costly mistake (they lost over 5.5 million subs from a dedicated player-base with tenure) was taking their most Elite & invested Dev team & moving them to another project (Titan) while Vivendi suggested some nut-case (with absolutely no Dev experience & certainly No Lead Dev experience) take the reins; he decided that the over-all dumb-ing down of World of Warcraft, prancing Pandas, lowering the age to 12 would be the new direction.

            “Free Epic Gear for All! Just stand here …. right here and look purty!”

            Because Expansions are developed 3 to 4 years in advance, players were stuck with crappola for several years.

            Though the WoD expansion is “a returning to WoW’s original roots” and a much needed break from the over-all “crappola” and doing well; the game has never truly recovered but still is much better than it was for many years. Many players from the days O’ Vanilla have returned.

            If Blizzard did take control of EQN/EQ2 AND upheld the original standard of the original EQ play style; a diverse, immersive, semi-sandbox MMORPG – with the same subscription model – it very well could succeed.

            Any other company – they simply are driven by greed and lack the gaming passion essential necessary for an enjoyable experience from the consumer or gamers perspective.

  27. I doubt it but I hope there will be a new direction for the company and EQ II. I would have let Smed and Windstalker go also. EQ I and EQ II are failing because of the decisions being made Smed, Smokejumper, and the producers they put in place. EQN is vaporware and the graphical style does not appeal to many EQ veterans. Maybe someone at the venture capital firm is an EQ nut who made it big–a Mark Cuban type would be great for EQ.

    I say bring back the Isle, the suburbs, and the challenge of EQII at launch and players will come back.

      2. If things were being well managed at SOE none of this would have happened to the employees. Smed has led a corporation that has lost incredible amounts of money during his tenure. Smokejumper has taken the entire franchise in a direction that many veteran subscribers disagree with completely. I can’t name one decision that I agree with during Windstalker’s time as producer. She has come across in many interviews and forum posts as being an “airhead”. I felt sorry for her the first time she was interviewed by Delmon. He knew far more about EQII than she did and could converse more intelligently about the subject. Brasse’s dwarf act lost its charm after the first viewing. I hope that some serious individuals will take the helm change the direction of the entire franchise.

      3. I’m not one of those who want her gone. Believe it or not Holly does care about the game and the players and much as the news about the devs we lost saddens me immensely, I’m very glad Holly has not one that we lost. It is because of Holly and her team on EQ2 that I’m still playing the game and enjoying a lot more then last year. fwiw She has my respect and gratitude for it.

        I do hope this in not a sign that it is going ot be sunsetted it would be a shame for them to do that to their flagship games.

    2. You lost me when you said ‘bring back the Isle, the suburbs, and the challenge of EQII at launch and players will come back’

      The Isle was one of the most ugly zones in the game. It’s been brought back with AoM and as a house. The suburbs were pointless and obsolete. They had served their purpose during launch but outside of a few minorities, nobody missed them. In a developer perspective, it’s completely inconsistent with the other cities.

      Speaking of Holly, I don’t mind her. I think a lot of people accuse her of things that were ultimately laid upon her by upper management. The game has become more artistically enriched under her leadership.

  28. Well FFS, my sub just renewed in December for a year. Sigh.

    I really love EQ2, but just don’t see how it will continue given this news. Coupled with no input from the new owners and players leaving the game in droves, I am very sad. Not that this was unexpected, just pretty damned fast.

    I feel for the folks who got the pink slips today. Been there, had it happen. If it helps at all,and they see this, it will be ok. Thank you to everyone who put so much into a game I have completely and totally enjoyed over the years. Thanks for the memories.

  29. I’ve read comments on people that where let go last few years. Not one was positive about upper management. Also there where numerous statements about there beeing to many people that worked on who knows what. Of course this all needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but still, where smoke is, is fire.
    (most of this is from mmorpg.com, linked there with sources)

    Now, where am I going with this..
    It might actually be good to get rid of under performing or redundant jobs/people, that don’t perform or deliver on what needs to be done.

    I still think EQ2 has great potential to grow, hope that Nova investment corp. sees that too and brings in new, qualified blood to fill the void.

    1. That depends on how long they have been stalking SOE as a takeover target. They could have considerable insider knowledge from well place people ‘recruited’ for that purpose. They could have paid for long and detailed interviews with recently departed staff members. Lots of ways for a company to get information and be ready to hit the ground running.

      As for Smed, well some times they leave the top redundancy target in place to act as a lightning rod for all the angst and anger. Then let them go a few days to weeks later.

      1. It looks like they took it right at the perfect time. SOE depleted due to several developing projects and a couple earlier ones not delivering as originally planned; makes an easy target for a takeover.

        These deals are usually not overnight, CEO’s should be aware; hostile or not.
        Doing research on this investment corp. , witch requires some persistence. Their history is not about investment and grow. Rather, fast cash grab, split-up and sell as high as possible.
        Like any store: “Buy low, -sell high.”

        1. Also, while I think about it.
          The deal was probably already round before H1Z1 (beta) release, the investment corp. pushed for a pre-release to push company value while people where unaware of the takeover.

  31. I understand people being upset at the changes, but what folks fail to realize is this is just business. Over the years we’ve come to see many of these people as an extended family, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, put away your tinfoil hats and just ride the wave. Change can be a good thing. I have no doubt that these people (or at least the majority of them) were offered a nice parachute, if not an option to stay on if they would only agree to do X or Y.

    While it is disheartening that we’ve not heard a single peep from the new owners, they aren’t legally obligated to fluff any of our pillows at night. If you care so much about companies you spend your money on to demand to know everything about every employee consider this:

    When was the last time you put so much time and effort into knowing everything about the people who keep your lights on, what all of their names are and what they do for you daily? What about the people who keep the heat flowing through your home and for your shower?

    I didn’t think so.

    This is a game, a game we all enjoy on one level or another which is why we play it (and most of us subscribe). So why doesn’t everyone chill out, have a little patience and faith that this new company isn’t just running around firing people because they have <(nsert random conspiracy theory here), and have a girl scout cookie. If you don't have a girl scout cookie, you can order a box or ten HERE. Put some of that focus on a little girl that’s trying to do good in the world, even when sometimes the world looks bleak.

    2. Games are not the same as lights and heat. Anyone who is in the game business and who doesn’t recognize the difference is foolish.

      Lights and heat are necessities and they aren’t hobbies or entertainment. They don’t have competitors trying to lure me away.

      Bad comparison in my opinion. More like cars. Lots of cars to chose from. They can gain or lose me as a loyal customer based on their performance.

      1. The basics are the same, business is business no matter what the type. No idiot in their right mind would spend a large sum of money on a company without FIRST evaluating the investment. They send people in to the offices, they review not only employee functions, but also finances, etc. They didn’t just walk in one day and say, “Hi, here’s some cash I want to buy you out.” They had a plan before they took on the franchise, and they don’t have to tell you what that plan is. They clean house, then set that company on the intended path. You don’t have to like the way they are doing things, or the choices they are making, but they are making them for a reason. With any acquisition, people are offered choices. Stay on with (insert new goal and new restrictions here) or thank you for your hard work thus far, enjoy (insert severance package here). It is true, people we know and like will be moving on, but complaining about it isn’t going to change a thing. You, on the other hand, as a consumer, because that is exactly what we are, have the choice to stay or walk away.

        It’s business. Their business. We are customers, not shareholders. It isn’t player owned. Either sit back and enjoy the ride or move on. No amount of complaining is going to get them to change their plans. The plans were researched and laid out before the signed the final paperwork.

        1. CN, you argue that people making such an investment would be stupid to not do due diligence. Instead of arguing that players remain passive and not consider their personal investments in the game, in time and money, maybe you would consider that we are as relevant as the “investor.” It is not even a given that they are “investors” but more of the same so many of us have experienced who destroy jobs to part out a business without regard to their communities.

          If our power or water company was bought by these guys, you better believe many of us would be just as suspicious.

          Anyone who wants to sit back and let things wash over you, that’s a choice and one you advise that may even be the right course.

  32. SOE wasn’t purchased by an angry 14yr old who got ganked 1 too many times and just wants to destroy everything as revenge. There has to be a positive side to this. Whether it’s EQN or existing games, something is going to get some heavy attention so as to make Daybreak marketable to resell…assuming that’s their intention.

  34. This has to be said, to all who were affected by the layoffs, I wish you all best on a successful transition and hope that your families wont be affected negatively. Thank you for the work you all put in through out the years.

  35. I mean, if they truly bought SOE in hopes of making it big with H1Z1 they are quite a foolish investment firm. It’s one of those games that does not appeal to most people who play RPGs, especially SOE ones. The people it does cater to will find it sorely lacking and just plain bad and end up over at DayZ or w/e it is. I just can’t beleive they could be that foolish and if they are then yes, I hope they sell the EQ IP to someone else.

  36. I was shocked when i saw this news this morning but mainly at Georgeson being let go,the poor other average joe’s are always in the firing line but one of the big men i was very surprised.

    As for the medium term for EQ2 i can see it being sold off in the near future i get the sense they want the likes of planetside and the zombie game which are console friendly(ier) the the EQ IP,but we’ll see i suppose.

  37. Soul II Soul – Back To Life

    Still trying to understand how some of you are retaining shock value from all of this. Have you checked server population in the last year? Have you been in an upper tier raid guild? Do you have a toon on Nagafen? Have you dealt with the GM’s on Nagafen? As far as I am concerned a portion of the team brought this on themselves. When I go into a Q&A to see current subject being discussed is the appearance of conjuror pets what was I supposed to expect to happen?

    Thing is that people gave their input on the game and the classes. SoE decided that because of complaining and declining subs we will just change (“fix”) anything sent our way. Nerf the classes, raid zones, PvP. The challenge to the game has been converted into something like farmville or a time sink phone app. I’m truly sorry if you were part of the team and went out of your way to help and correct issues to better the game, but of the people we saw most of them just brushed off the core issues. So whose fault is that really? Had a really great time with this game but the decline has been apparent for many years now not just recently. Time to hit the sandbox.

    1. There aren’t enough staff to keep throwing resources at Nagafen. Back when the team was bigger, they spent a shitload of time trying to give Nagafen players what they wanted, but nobody could agree on what they wanted and I guess people didn’t like what they got cause they all moved to Antonia Bayle and do BGs instead. The smarest thing the EQ2 team can do is to focus on its 95% of players who play PVE. Sorry but truth hurts.

      1. Then tell me why this server has sat vacant wasting resources for the last 3 years. Clearly they got the memo that the population wants to BG. Keep PvP in your almost marketing page to encourage newbies. The point I am making is that they broke the game when they gave everyone everything they wanted. How can you make everyone happy? The classes have been spiraling more and more out of balance with every patch. This one got the grease on the wheel this week and a month from now you put it right back down just because its what the players want?

  43. I am at a loss for words as far as the team members go that were let go. but i can say that the tremendous packet loss and lag issues from attempting my raid earlier show me exactly where this game is now headed. Eq2 has been my escape from reality and so much fun for me in my down time…but i get an overwhelming feeling that now my friends and i will no longer be able to enjoy thie game. So Sad To See It All End. 🙁

  44. Wow, I am just finding out about this (no longer actively playing EQ2) and I’m appalled at how deep the cuts are. They basically took any dev/community person worth a damn and threw them to the curb. At least Georgeson went with them, that’s the silver lining in this terribly dark cloud. Good luck to all that were let go (yes, even Georgeson, so long as he stays away from any game I’m playing lol) and hope you find an even brighter future!

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