Feldon As visitors to the #EQ2Wire chatroom or the EQ2 Subreddit know — which I have to admit is growing on me — I was “permanently suspended” from the EQ2 Forums two nights ago. To date, the exact reason why I was banned has not been forthcoming. After two days of mayhem, a “Free Feldon” campaign (thanks guys!), and additional suspensions, SOE Community Manager Tony “RadarX” Jones has posted a thread today encouraging players to sidestep the “thou shalt not discuss moderation” rule and confess their sins.
Besides a brief statement, at this point I’m choosing to opt out of the discussion and would remind anyone considering responding that you always take a risk of losing not just your access to the forums, but also your access to EverQuest II and you beloved characters. Is it really worth such a high cost? Here is my response to the thread:
It seems my “permanent suspension” has been miraculously undone. To date, the specific criteria with which I was judged to be in breach of the forum rules has not been elucidated to me. I’m not sure it matters anymore. If I want to talk to the developers, I know how to reach them, and if players want to talk to me, they know how to reach me. I’d rather not further distract from the forum discussions which really should be focused on Kander’s new article on the Rum Cellar update and a glimpse at what’s coming later this year.
As for this “open dialogue” thread, I’m going to give the same advice I would give anyone entering a casino:
- Never bet anything you can’t afford to lose (your access to play EQ2)
- Never forget that the House always wins.
- If you’re not a gambler, then heed the advice of Admiral Akbar.
Bet he ignores my post once again. EQ2 Moderation = Answer what you want, ban everybody else.
Tony has stated on Reddit that he’s not the head of the Community team, so I’m curious to whom he reports. We need to be having this open dialogue with that person.
Do you really think anything will be accomplished? Radar_X got his hand slapped for banning Feldon and was told to go play nice with the masses. This is his attempt to show he cares
You aren’t feeling warm and fuzzy?
Cold Pricklies is more like it!
I truly loved this game since launch, up until about 2 years ago when EQnext began. The writing, for me, has been on the wall. Now they are pushing players and entire communities away in droves.
Nope, no warm fuzzy here
After making a double post I erased the content of the 2nd post, wrote “double post” in its place and reported it so MOD – Random # could remove it.
I was given a warning for posting “non-commercial spam” and was told not to do it again.
Tony and his former team have long been the best example of how not to run a forum.
Ha – sums it up really.
I’ve had posts removed which on appeal were approved, just because a MOD didn’t actually bother to read it – they just skimmed it, picked up on a phrase or word and assumed the worst.
The funniest thing is, they had to ask me to repost as once deleted the post was gone forever. And, of course, I couldn’t remember what I had said and was then too scared to repost in case I phrased it wrong the second time.
The way RadarX and team run the official forums has rendered them unfit for purpose.
I thought about posting the following in the thread but decided while I want to voice my opinion… I have never been suspended and I’m afraid what follows would change that however I want my opinion voiced so here it is:
Radarx claims you (Feldon) were being disruptive. From what I saw you were posting your opinion which doesn’t agree with many of their decisions. Nowhere have I seen anything which says thou shalt not post dissenting opinions of our games. I never saw you post a call to arms which seems to be what you’re being accused of. The only thing I can figure is because you are bit of a public figure anything you say which is not in agreement with Daybreak is clearly designed to start a riot. Given that either just because you are in the Public Spotlight you should agree with every word the borg…. I mean Daybreak says or they think the rest of us are idiots incapable of thinking for ourselves. In other words because you a leader in the community said you don’t like a.b,c we like sheep don’t like a,b, and c. Thing is I believe the majority of people really are against these changes whether a well known public figure voices their opinion or not. I don’t agree with the decisions I’ve seen and that was before I saw any of Feldon’s posts in contrary of the decisions. All of us should be free to post our opinions regardless of who we are.a d how in the public eye you are.
I regularly post dissenting opinions, I regularly get warnings, suspensions, and occasionally perma-bans.
I would guess 1:5 posts I make with a dissenting opinion of something they directly said or did is moderated.
So far Radar X is just paraphrasing the company line over and over, and skipping past any awkward questions.
My main point is, if it is as easy and straightforward to avoid bans and warnings on the forums as Radar X keeps on claiming, why has all this come to such a head that we need a thread allowing us to discuss it? Clearly there is an issue, and a big one.
Personally I particularly object to “not contributing to the discussion” – it is such a fluffy, nonsense phrase, hugely open to interpretation.
There isn’t enough communication, the appeals process (such as it is) isn’t fit for purpose, and there is a staggering lack of consistency. It is a total gamble whether the Mod working on any given day will approve your post or not.
I could rant for hours but I won’t. My feelings & experiences are expressed at length over in the thread, if anyone is interested – 95% ignored by RadarX so far.
I’ve had my share of bans, not always fair or justified. None properly explained. My longest I wear with great pride – gained over the Proseiben Deal – it’s my scar/trophy from a hard fought battle.
I was suspended for the truth and calling em all out for the liars they are.. All the broken promises. Content that should have been released that wasn’t etc. Cash shops that were promised never to have “pay to win” items like grandmasters. 10 years + a member and its sickening at times when you really think about it. They try to justify with “lack of constructive criticism” for their reasoning. But the platform that wire has become, the popularity of EQ2U. The power is always in the player base. The devs and management of eq2 have been managing themselves out of a job for years — look at all the layoffs and loss of jobs due to poor direction, mismanagement, and lack of listening to the player base –all causes of people quitting the game. People stick around not for what the game is, but rather the hope of what it can and could be. But if the answer is to squash the dissent of a large amount of the player base with bans and suspensions rather then promote open discussion, its easier and probably most likely worthwhile to start somewhere else. There’s influential people that private discussions with soe that bashed what they have done but somehow they are all spokesman now and its worthwhile to buy this upcoming content that was supposed to be included in the expansion to begin with. A travesty indeed. Makes you wonder what they are all getting in exchange for their compliance.
The thread is there for one reason and one reason only. To let us vent. Once he has decided we have vented enough he will close it and put his jack-boots back on.
If there’s a silver lining, all our spleens will be a bit less congested.
I want to, I really do, but I have nothing to say to him that I haven’t already said in an email in the past.
That’s actually a interesting observation. He seems to be replying to the spleen venting but not any of the other observations/questions..
Of course he is, if you think for one sec that things are going to get better now that Tony has made his little thread (in which he seems to be doing a lot of poster shaming) I have some nice property to sell you located on the Moors of Ykesha, only recently lived in by a family of froglocks. 😉
Poster shaming and repeatedly drawing attention to just how much info he knows about all of us and our accounts. Not threatening in any way, but slightly creepy/disturbing nonetheless.
Agreed. Many of his posts would send big warning flares up to most companies saying ‘not suited for a customer facing job’.
Well isn’t this a face you can trust?
https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrink_200_200/p/2/000/07a/340/0b7f517.jpg
I’ve had the same impression. If I needed a leg-breaker, he’d be my first call.
If someone brings up a specific banning event in THEIR account’s history and says that specific incident was handled unfairly, then I’d expect Tony to look up that history and talk about it in general terms. That may be the least objectionable thing he’s done in this “open dialogue” thread. 🙂
All the warnings and bans can be viewed on 1 page. XenForo makes it pretty easy to get this info at-a-glance.
Truth!
You’ll notice that in 11 pages not once has he budged or yielded even an inch on any policy or ruling. Everything is ‘This is how we do things. We’re not going to change it. We followed procedure.’ He’s just explaining how everyone is wrong. If he posts “we could do X better/differently”, my eyes might pop out of my head.
I love the ‘it’s got problems”… ‘It’s not perfect.” ‘It creates a bad user experience.’ Shortly after followed by ‘it’s obvious and the way it’s been done and going to be done in the future’.
Aye. A lot of constructive suggestions for improvement/changes are being made, some feasible/sensible, some.. not so much, but he has resolutely ignored them and evaded replying or commenting on each and every one of them.
That thread isn’t about open dialogue – it’s about hammering home the existing moderation system only.
We’re all wrong, he is right. That is basically the message I’m getting. That and the supposedly better new forum software is actually to blame for everything else. And that he reads all our PMs. /sigh
This attitude is no surprise, but just for once I kinda hoped for genuine dialogue especially now things aren’t SOE any more.
That thread over @ eq2 forum is getting interesting. Wonder if Radar is getting paid overtime this weekend to hold his job? 😈
I’ve always said for all these years now if I was in charge of any MMO I would welcome any and all discussions and opinions because you don’t learn anything if you filter out the negative. But, for as long as I care to remember SOE has always been about silencing opinions that don’t match their own. I had hope that maybe this would change with the switch to Daybreak but I guess it’s not going to.
It’s sad really. We’re all customers and we should all have the chance to voice how we feel about a product a lot of us have supported for a long time.
After reading up about him on ten ton hammer he seemed to be a nice guy at one time, I’m getting a Anakin Skywalker and Palpatine vibe here… Darth Smedley must have corrupted him. 😆
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/68276
It’s a sad state of affairs when your “advice” hits the nail on the head. =(
Thanks for continuing to do what you do. =)
The great Feldon finally got banned. Meanwhile I’ve had three accounts banned with basically no reason given by SoE, I’m actually afraid to post on the official forums on my last account. SoE can’t take criticism, anyone being a critic in any capacity is instantly silenced. Then SoE wonders why they’re doing so poorly and why they can’t retain players the way other games can.
Oh and the incredibly offensive thing I was doing that resulted in my ban was “non constructive posting” according to SoE. The one account also got “trolling” on top of that for a reason I can’t remember.
I have hope each time the Community Manager position passes to a new person that it will be different, but it never is. It must be a company-wide policy to be a shithead.
back during the entire prosebien mess I got myself a 5 day span due to a few of the things I said, was not attacking anybody just giving my thoughts about the entire mess, and how soe mishandled all of it. I rarely use soe forums now, as there is no telling what will get you a ban. And yes I had a couple of warning, got one for complaining about the new ruleset for missing guild leaders. I guess they did not like my 3rd post and that one got removed. I was trying to show them in the past with screen shots they handled it before.
Why is it I’ve logged into the EQ2 website but it says (You have insufficient privileges to reply here.) at the bottom? Have I been banned? Or have I just not done something that I needed to? I’ve, literally, was just in game and have been playing since 2004 so I’ve logged in, and I’ve been an All Access member since they started All Access (YEARS ago) . . . so why don’t have have sufficient privileges to post anymore? What do I need to do to post again?
Sounds like you have been banned. Giving the lie, yet again, to RadarX and his bunch of forum Nazis.
“Forum suspensions are never done on a whim and usually come with a fair bit of warning. Any time one is issued, it is after a string of communication and in hopes that we open up a dialogue with the individual and reach an understanding of what our guidelines will allow.”
The time I picked up a 5 day ban during the prosibien deal, I did not even know about it until I tried to log in. The other 2 times I picked up a suspension same thing. Never once saw an email, and on top of that I had to file a ticket, to find out what was going on. That is the truth of the matter. Once I filed one on the 5 day ban, I was told I had sever post deleted and or modified, I know the post were deleted but never once was I sent a reason why until I filed the ticket to find out why I had picked up a 5 day ban. The other times it was just a 1 day time out.
There was a change made a few weeks ago that meant that people could only post on the forums if they had logged into the game in the recent past.
If you’ve been in game that shouldn’t apply but if you have kept the forums open in your browser the flag might not have reset yet. I would advise you to try logging out of and then back into the forums now that you’ve been in game to see if that fixes it.
Which RadarX said was to stop spam…
Yeah that’s what happens when you get banned, if you want a reason you gotta email support, the’ll copy and paste you a generic reason. Sometimes they’ll undo it I hear, I dunno. Guess it depends what you did to get the ban.
While I admit I can be the devils advocate and a bit blunt RadarX is clearly the type that is always right and perfect at least in his own eyes.
I have said it there at the official forums and I will say it here this is nothing more then a short lived PR stunt to quell the masses following the banning and reinstatement of Feldon to the forums, and the recent rash of Heavy handed moderation due to the discontent over the many changes many of them negative.
I am new to EQ2 only a little over 2 months and I admit RadarX has made me regret spending Money on all access and on SC close to $100 already to support a game that was fun to play. The destructive attitude of the team makes me wonder how long the game will last and I hate to not support it and make that a self full filling prophecy but I see no real change in sight from RadarX or the Team.
The worst part of EQ2 is the forums. This has been the case since launch. On one hand you have the devs communicating with players unlike any other game on the market (which is awesome). On the other hand you have the forum Nazi’s over moderating the hell out of adults with concerns.
I’ve been banned from the forums 3 times. The first time was well deserved. The other two were completely inappropriate. To me, the forums are the face of the EQ2 community. The moderators are like Chinese police. They say anything, and you have no choice but compliance. It’s crap and the worst part about the company.
And now RadarX is unnecessarily publicly naming two accounts which are linked to prove a trivial point about using second accounts to bypass bans. /facepalm
And on a self admitted “assumption” that that is what was happening too. To be fair, it probably was what was happening, but he doesn’t know for sure and should NOT have named the accounts.
Agreed. Naming the two accounts was totally out of bounds.
Naming accounts, according to Sony/DayBreak, is a ban offense. For an employee to do this, it means they accessed private user information. Something Sony/DayBreak says they NEVER do.
Fire the bums.
Feldon
I’m tired of trying to rationalise with this knobhead on the official forums.
How easy would it be to set up forums on EQ2 Wire and at what cost? I’m willing to financially contribute if needed.
You’re not alone Beagley. I’d rather spend money on building a working community than i would on the next content release. Let us know what we can do Feldon.
We’re working on it.
eep!
😉
EQ2Wire forums FTW!!!!!
Well there you have it and probably the first honest statement from DBG in this thread they have no intention of fixing what is wrong with moderation it was what we thought nothing more then a PR Stunt to let people vent and close down dissent. Allow it to run a few more days then they will lock it and delete it and learn nothing from it.
Decisions are made, rules are made, no input is sought, wanted, or “needed”, and all that’s to be done is explain the rules. There will be no adjustment or changes to rules due to input of any type. They make the rules we follow them.
Sounds like where I work.
Basically, if the rules and bad feelings destroy our business, so be it. Our job isn’t to keep the business thriving and keep people’s good will. Our job is to enforce the rules.
The people who enforce the rules are not the people who profit from the company doing well. Why should they care what happens as a result. They aren’t invested in the game thriving.
DGC offloading communications to a third party site is probably a good thing for community. They have no accountability for what customers post nor control over it.
I know Feldon loves to stir shit occasionally, but I’d never say he’s a troll. He cares, and that leads to emotional reactions. Any decent forum mod should know that a total lack of “disruptive” posts is a clear indicator that no one cares about what you’re discussing.
I just use eq2wire to find out of anything happens worth knowing. I don’t recall the last time I read the official forum.
Yakov Smirinoff:
In Mother Russia… Forum posts YOU!
…. so who bought SOE?
P.S. We’ll cya soon
I think he just said that eq2 is an insignificant part of the whole..or maybe eq2 forums. I can’t tell and I won’t ask.
😯 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVfjwIyc-CU
I’d like to buy an Afista campaign.
Awe, just saw this. Miss you guys! Even the aggressive PVPers 😉 /hugs
I can’t believe they banned you, dude. You’re not only generally a really nice guy (from what I’ve seen), but you run the best fan site out there for EQ2 imo. It’s angered me to no end, and not just because I like you, but because it’s a VERY bad sign of how they’re going to treat people for simply disagreeing with them. I’ve seen that sort of behavior before, anyone who is that intolerant of dissent will eventually drive everyone away.
I have two accounts and I’m closing them both. My girlfriend likes raiding so she may stay in game, but I know that eventually she’s going to get tired of me not raiding at her side and she’ll be gone, too.
These guys are making one awful mistake after another, and they’re outright disrespecting their best customers. Don’t give them another cent of your money, they don’t deserve it.
My main account started just over 2 months after launch. I still play that very first character made. Part of my loyalty, I’ll admit, is rooted in the fact that there are no other MMOs out there that I like (and I’ve tried a lot of them). But I no longer care.
Daybreak: Screw you guys, I’m going home….
As an update to not being able to post (from above) it turns out, I was told, that it was required I log into the game to be able to post . . . Of course, I haven’t NOT logged in, for any longer than a day or three (possibly 7 during the one vacation I took) since 2004. I’ve only one account, so I don’t know why I was flagged as not having the privileges to post.
That being said, Radarx DID fix it as soon as I sent him a PM about it, (of course, after telling me I should have logged in) . . . but hey, at least I wasn’t banned!
Remember that SOE/DBG have banned people in the past just for using phrases such as ‘upgrade now.’ As well as instantly banning members of the gaming media who join the forums. This is not a competently run set of forums we’re discussing here, let alone a competently run company. And now that they’ve hit rock bottom and are essentially owned by a front company for the Russian mafia, things are not going to improve unless there is sufficient pressure and publicity bought to bear on DBG and they are not allowed to carry on doing this sort of thing in a relative bubble.
Utter morons the mods over at SOE/daybreak or whatever they call themselves,power hungry little boys who should really remember who pays their wages..i.e. us the paying public.
Greeting fellows , I’m from another forum , and do not wish to nose in on your conversation here , but my problem I have has directed me to this site and I’ve been reading your comment’s about moderators “.
I belong to a 60,000 member gun forum and have just been reinstated from my 2nd. 30 day band from reacting with MANY” Friends I have met since 2011 when I first joined the forum , now with almost 4000 post’s and almost 6000 like’s .
I have a slight problem with one moderator there that seems to think , He’d the “Great Texas Ranger’ , of all time . We have aprox. 40 moderators on the site , and there All” a fairly good bunch of guys , that most of us member post back and forth with each other all the time….
That is Except for one” single moderator , that seem to like to flex his arm to myself in private emails , from what I know and have seen forwarded to my private email address , more that 200 other folks on the forum that I have communicated with privately by email and by phone about this problem with the One moderator .
Some of those people have moved off of the forum , to other forums , and some , just monitor it and post Very Little anymore , including myself , for fear of getting an email form “Jack” about one thing or the next . I have a feeling there is a LOT” more of this going on our forum that just the one I know of .
This stuff is Really leaving me with a nasty taste in my mouth for moderators , and what I’m really trying to find is a forum that has NO” moderators to interfere with the free speech of the posters .
I just wanted you all to know” , I really think this stuff you all , and myself are talking about here is a bigger problem than what most of us think . When a person can not visit with a Whole” lot of people freely we all know on one of these forums without some moderator clown slapping you up side the head” , in a private email , Or Suspension , or being Band off the site for a period of time , That” is a Big Problem
I just wanted to throw all that out there to you all …. Thanks for reading….
David
If you have a spot of cancer on your hand, you don’t cut off the entire arm. You remove the part that’s affected. We already have an EQ2 forum with “No” moderators. It’s called EQ2Flames and traffic there is close to zero.
Well I just think moderation on any forum is a bad thing . You might be ok on the site from several years , and the all of a sudden , they vote in or appoint a new one , that think’s he God” or something . You can not discuss , with that one know it all about ANYTHING” He has the power to flat Unplug you , at His discretion and That’s Final ” ! your locked out , Can’t Email him about it , or other wise take to the man until your so called vacation is complete .
You have 0 >>> Nota” , absolutely no recourse you can do about it . Then when your aloud to return” If You disagree with his funkie little welcome back return email letter , Your aloud to see on then” You get More threat’s from the big mouth sob . and that’s all people are like that , They don’t have balls to get in a mans face like that and lip off to him .
There for I have no use for moderators of any kind” good or bad . It just take’s one loud mouth to ruin it for all the rest of them that try to work with ya and usually do a pretty god job , as a moderator . I feel the same way about managers / supervisors , at your place of work”…. All it takes is just One bad one to ruin it with most people from that point forward . That’s the way it was with most of the employees they worked under for the Last” 15 years I worked for a large Corporation till I retired . But Thank God” All Mighty” , I have a very good one I worked under . His name is Buddy , and I still see and talk with him now and then to this day , three years into my retirment .
Dave