Feldon Our most commented post here on EQ2Wire so far has been the “What if?” discussion started by SmokeJumper pondering whether EQ2 should offer some sort of shortcut to level 90.
Many players expressed their opinions from one extreme to the other and everything in between. Some players demanded that this take place on another server. Others made the fair point that many players would find themselves at 90 with utterly no idea how to play their class.
I fell along the line that since 1-85 has *already* been trivialized due to itemization changes and neglect in the last ~18 months, why not provide a way for players who already have a a level 90 character to ding another from, say, 50 to 85? Already, many of us earn our AAs from level 15-65 when it’s most easily obtained, and then close our eyes, grit our teeth, and push through the mind-numbing errand quests from 70-85.
So what was the outcome of all this? Probably the most interesting thread on the EQ2 forums in a long time. If you read one forum thread about EQ2 this month, I would suggest this one. SmokeJumper wrapped up the thread with:
Okay…I have to leave this thread and do other things now…but let me say this to anyone reading this far:
THIS PROGRAM IS NOT HAPPENING! IT WILL NOT BE IMPLEMENTED AS DESCRIBED! (needs to be more win-win)
However, there were a lot of good ideas in this thread and I’ll stew on them for a while longer to come up with some new concepts.
Thank you very much for your feedback! If anyone wants to leave comments on other ways they think win backs might work better, that’d be cool. I love trading ideas back and forth and will touch back throughout the weekend.
and later:
It was just a discussion to ensure that the assumptions we were making internally were actually on track. The conversation was constructive, but we really had no intention of giving level 90s away.
Well, this gives me a sigh of relief. An instant 90 would probably be the DIY store, the hammer, the nails, the nice comfy insides and the sword that killed this game.
Now are they just gonna give low level fliers or what?
Yeah, the “just give away a 90” doesn’t feel right, although it does raise a heck of a lot of interesting questions about the game and the problems that build up as the expansions pile on (just speeding up XP gain isn’t for me the perfect answer either).
My thoughts on just giving the 90 away is that it does diminish one key strength that EQ2 has in that there is just so much content that can be done, and I’m sure its just for that reason Blizzard didn’t take the same route with WoW and instead tried to solve it with Cataclysm.
The problem is still out there and as Smokejumper said its still being thought about, I like some of the more constructive ideas like up mentoring on the forum even if I don’t agree with them since ideas spawn more ideas.
What I find interesting is that the discussion about the instant 90 was most likely the nail in the coffin for anybody that considered going back to EQ2 and any potential subscriber who reads that whole thread is probably never going to subscribe.
The problem is that the current content is at 90, the population is at 90 and the whole idea that new or returning players would be interested in soloing old unrewarding content, (you can not do most Hqs as those require groups, several signature quests even required raids) for weeks or longer before they are able to experience the game is just silly.
Me and my wife was to low level and later undergeared for TSO so we did not get to experience that content, when we got to SF most people where at level cap already so we did not get to see a lot of that content either. Then we realized that the game is not really for us so we did not even buy DoV and canceled our subs.
The question is as someone wrote, “What is the hardcore solution to bring returning players back?”.
Instead of search easy quick profit, oups way to get more player, why not just make get work ? correct ALL bug, do the job ?
DoV is here since month and still so many bug it’s not possible to count them…
If the game is great player will be happy and other player will come, very easy to get player when the job is well done.
And no marketplace is not an argument. Yes marketplace is very well done. I talk about the game himself 😉
You know itemization, mob, spell, pathing, AA, everything is broken at some point.
give me a station cash-purchasable feature that gives me a free flying mount on all my characters, current and future, starting at level 20, and i’d gladly pay $30 for it.
we really had no intention of giving level 90s away.
hm does that statement mean selling them in station cash? or that they have no plans to allow them at all 🙂
I find it crazy that people would stop playing or choose not to play simply because of a discussion that was had on the forum about something that will never be implemented. This quite frankly is something we as EQ2 players have asked for for a long time now. Actual dialogue and discussion with the developers. This is the senior producer coming to the forums, posting an idea, and reacting to feedback from his customers. How can that upset anyone?
Sorry but if you left because you could not do current level content, that is not the developers fault, it is your own. Play the game, level up and get in a guild that lets you do the content. Don’t complain that the developers are doing anything whatsoever to keep you from it. You have just as much means to that content as every other player on your server. Put in the time and you will reap the rewards, which is exactly what most MMO players are looking for, correct? In my opinion DoV is some of the best, most fun content they have released since KoS. I can’t wait till we get into the western wastes and start seeing some dragons again too. If you played in the past, you are definately missing out on some of the best content released in quite some time.
Besides, one of the greatest features of EQ2 is the mentoring/chrono system that is setup so you can go back and experience whatever content you happen to miss. You can most likely solo, definately duo the majority of the past zones so go out with your wife and have some fun. The older zones are definately a blast and you will have a good time. No one is keeping you from that content but yourself.
@Sigtyr, sort of:
The problem of everyone being at 90 and new players/characters being forced to solo doesn’t exist on Extended; we actually have low level activity. You can log in and have fun with a group without needing to solo (or skip) to 90/300 to do so. Having seen this, I think perhaps the solution for Live should be in finding new players to revitalize old content rather than pushing everyone, new or old, to the endgame.
I’ve seen it in many games, both as a player and developer–when all the players are old vets, it’s just not the same. A sort of cynicism takes hold and the earlier content which people used to love somehow ‘doesn’t count’ any more. Powerleveling or buying characters becomes more desired and common as the idea that only the end matters takes hold–and worse yet, this idea is passed to many new players who then never get to fully enjoy the lower content that the vets once did.
The new players on Extended who don’t buy in to the idea that you have to rush to the cap are perfectly happy doing the things that the veterans find so onerous. It’s not the content that went bad, it’s the culture.
The F2P model is one way to attract new players; surely there are other options that would work for Live.
(Of course, fixing the old content so it isn’t broken by new mechanics like the stat simplification would be a good thing to do before filling that content with players…)
Here’s an idea: Expand the Chronomentoring so that (a) you gain benefits that help you at cap (shards etc.) and (b) create ‘group chrono’ content with even better benefits. Give those 90s a reason to chrono down and stomp DFC, Wailing Caves, or even Mara…and make it challenging, fun and rewarding!
I know, unlikely to happen with the march to Age’s End, but a fella can dream…
But alas, mentoring isn’t challenging thanks to the system not accounting for AAs or the gear changes that come with each expansion. They’d have to fix that first, and last I heard they didn’t plan to do that since a lot of people like that opportunity to be overpowered. (Read: They like the ability to powerlevel people and/or farm AA by slaughtering lower content. If they just wanted to be overpowered they could go in without mentoring at all. :P)
Well reading through the whole thread again on the forums I can only say, why should I play and subscribe to an unfun game, especially after reading 20 something pages describing all the horrible things that will happen if scrubs like me actually get to 90 in an easy way, it is plainly obvious that you will not group with me regardless of how I got there and that is why no sane person will sub to EQ2 as a new/returning player. That 90/300 raider that you dream of is just that, a dream.
It is also interesting to note that the discussion about a free 90 on EQ2 flames was much less intense and in general more positive.
Crismorn/Davionx post on page 27 of the thread is my fav, it really sums the whole thing up.
As I said before, I subbed to EQ2 to have fun, to play with people, to do interesting content. I did not sub to hear, you are to low level, you have to few AP, your gear is subpar. I do accept that there probably are people out there who do sign up to hear that, but I assume they are few.
And there are lots of games out there for me, EQ2 is just not one of them anymore.
The journey to 90 is the most fun out of the whole game. Most of us already have a 90, so we know the content that’s up there in level, but I enjoy my alt, leveling it up and visiting places I’ve been to in the past…in some cases visiting places I didn’t see on my 90.
I remember being in beta and getting an instant 90, and I remember not knowing how to play it…it was very discouraging. Part of leveling your toon is learning as you go along.
Instant 90 would kill the game…we don’t need people in groups and open raids that don’t know how to play their toon correctly.
I should reiterate by beta, I meant DoV beta, sorry.