Altar of Malice Heroic Progression Rebalance This Week
Looks like this week’s Bug Bash update slipped from its Tuesday slot (Windstalker on Twitter):
We are having to postpone tomorrow's update for the time-being due to some technical weasels. We'll update you soon. #eq2
— Holly Longdale (@WindstalkerEQ2) December 9, 2014
But for those who have been taking a beating in Altar of Malice’s heroic zones, I’m happy to announce that the chiropractor is in town and some adjustments are being made. From Kander on the EQ2 Forums:
Our current view of the Altar of Malice Heroic Zone progression is a bit skewed. We will be toning down some dungeons to better fit in the progression. This progression is mainly based on what resists are recommended for each tier which are:
Tier 1 Heroics = 100K base resists recommended
Tier 2 Heroics = 120K resists recommended
Tier 3 Heroics = 120K + resists recommended
This is the current progression:
Tier 1 – Brokenskull Bay: Bilgewater Falls
Tier 1 – Brokenskull Bay: Hoist the Yellow Jack
Tier 1 – Zavith’loa: The Lost Caverns
Tier 1 – Zavith’loa: The Hidden Caldera
Tier 1 – Zavith’loa: The Hunt
Tier 2 – Brokenskull Bay: Bosun’s Private Stock
Tier 2 – Ossuary: Resonance of Malice
Tier 2 – Castle Highhold
Tier 2 – Castle Highhold: Thresinet’s Den
Tier 2 – Castle Highhold: Insider Treachery
Tier 2 – Ssraeshza Temple
Tier 2 – Ssraeshza Temple: Taskmaster’s Echo
Tier 3 – Ossuary: Sanguine Fountains
Tier 3 – Ossuary: Choir of T’Vyl
Tier 3 – Ssraeshza Temple: Inner SanctumThe following zones will be toned down in complexity, damage and overall difficulty to better fit the progression:
- Brokenskull Bay: Hoist the Yellow Jack
- Castle Highhold
- Castle Highhold: Thresinet’s Den
- Castle Highhold: Insider Treachery
- Ssraeshza Temple
- Ssraeshza Temple: Taskmaster’s Echo
We will of course be watching and make future adjustments if necessary.
Loot in the Tier 3 dungeons has been increased in quality. Expect changes with the patch this week along with the Bug Bash fixes and some more changes next week.
I’m a fan of having upper echelon heroic zones and, at least for the time being, Altar of Malice’s challenging heroic zones will stay that way. It was a sense of accomplishment to reliably run Temple of Veeshan zones especially Dominion. But it’s probably wise for at least a few of the expansion’s group zones to allow a wide latitude of usability, especially if next year’s Cross-Server Dungeon Finder is to be successful. Heavily scripted, gear-checking, DPS-checking mobs just aren’t a good fit for pick-up groups, local or otherwise.
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Comments (46)
Anaogi
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This is what happens when you balance around the regular suspects in beta–some of the best players in the game–instead around the general player population.
And I’m not even sure how to fix that.
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Shepherd
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I’d kind of like the first guy in Inner Sanctums AE toned down..
It hits crazy hard at 25%.
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milliebii
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No mention of the “Council” encounter in the Hidden Caldera. I am pretty sure that an encounter that requires split tanking does not belong in a Tier 1 zone.
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Dedith
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The lavacaster is really slow and can be kited around easily by anyone with ranged abilities, as long as ppl aren’t AoEing like crazy that is. His added are a pain to keep off the kiter, but yeah it’s an annoying fight.
A semi decent reason to take along a tank as dps. One who can swap to tank gear/spec for this (and the last) fight.
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milliebii
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Be that as it may. But requiring a second tank in a Tier 1 zone? I still think that is a bad decision.
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trulyvexed
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But all the information is given in red text in that encounter, you’re told that you were hit for massive damage because two things were hitting the same person.. anyone that can read should then understand what needs to be done.
As for the Lavacrafter, I’ve “tanked” him on a Dirge, I’ve seen Necro’s tank him and as long as you interrupt him whenever you see him cast he’ll never summon an add (which is one of my favorite things about this xpac so far, if you’re paying attention you can interrupt a LOT of things that makes a lot of different encounters easier in the heroic zones)
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Anaogi
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I don’t care if the red text tells me where to find Alexander’s Tomb in compensation, if you’re forcing a dual-tank, you’re not building an “easy zone” encounter.
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Noctew
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What’s your definition of “easy zone”? For me, easy zone means: no extreme gear requirements, no scripts with instant fail conditions (you can often recover from your mistakes as long as everyone is not making a mistake at the same time), no extreme setup fine-tuning,
Having to off-tank with a “chain mail tank”, does not necessarily mean a zone is not “easy”. IMO of course. If all you have is a tank and 5 squishies…well…okay, you may have a problem. But if you have at least one scout, it is not hard. It’s not like they’re hitting like a truck.
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Benj
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The fight does require “split-tanking” but it does not require a second Fighter-class. I was able to run that fight the other day with my under-geared paladin as only tank. I held one boss (don’t remember which) in the corner while the brigand tanked one in the other corner. The third pretty much kept to himself until we started beating on him.
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Matt
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You don’t need two tanks in Cauldera. You keep the fighter far away from the healer and caster and kill it fast. The caster is slow moving and the healer is rooted. Kill the fighter, the caster comes in, kill that, then go out and kill the poor healer all alone and rooted. piece of cake.
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mesh
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Or the spider queen in Castle Highhold: Thresinet’s Den that is considered t2 and should be considered t3.. hardest heroic fight in game atm.
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Vapur
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You think Thresinet or Qworux is hardest heroic fight?
Try Ssraeshza event heroic, then get back to me.
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Pheeliya
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Yeah nothing in thresinet even comes close to Temple.
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Eeshen
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Ugh, cross-server dungeon…it is was what made WoW lose the community you have by being on the same server. If you’re a jerk everyone knows it…but with dungeon finder, you can be a jerk and don’t have to worry about it.
You don’t get to know anyone…massively multiplayer becomes playing with a massive number of random strangers.
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Zzzz'z
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We need server mergers more than cross server dungeons! I don’t know why the devs can’t see that? Instead of doing mergers they hold fast on charging 25 per toon to move and unfortunately they lose more players to others games because of low pop servers and the lack of moving the whole account. Most players want all their toons on one server. Most players want to be on an active server where groups are plentiful and there are enough raiders to fill more than one or two raid forces on a server.
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Feldon
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You do understand that server mergers are not decided by anyone on the EQ2 dev team or indeed anyone in EQ2 management, right? The decision is made by Dave Georgeson.
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GriffonLady
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There’s a rumor that crafting XP is going to take the beating. Any truth to that?
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Liftik
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I certainly hope not, they just fixed the horrid tradeskill XP we WERE getting.
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Feldon
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Level 90-100 in tradeskills needed adjustment. Level 1-90 did not need a wrecking ball.
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Zzzz'z
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As soon as a crafter loses their vitality at the lower levels it slows down. I think the change was a good thing for newer crafters considering how long it takes to build vitality back up.
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Eric T Lewis
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There have been a certain few hard core crafters that have complained, but that is all. Honestly they just fixed crafting xp.
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Silzin
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If they really expect the 2 Brokenskull Bay zones to be easer then the 3 Dino Zones then they have a LOT of work to do on them.
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Dedith
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I do not believe those within each tier grouping are sorted in order of difficulty.
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Dedith
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Note, EQ2Wire’s AoM FAQ (in the featured drop down above) shows the proper difficulty, while this above is showing resist requirement groupings only.
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Mathafern
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I laugh so hard at their “This is the current progression”. They must only test run instances in raid gear from the previous (or maybe current?) expansion.
Caverns is Tier 1 once you set up the ACT trigger. The rest are Tier 2 or higher.
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Shepherd
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You don’t really need to set up a trigger for the last guy, people can call out who has to annoying curse.
All that does anyway is spawn a tiny add with almost no hp that you can just kill.
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Feldon
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I’m guessing you are not using in-game voice? You have 6 seconds to cure it. Add 1-2 second lag at each end and the healer has 2 sec to cure tops.
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Anaogi
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And that assumes you don’t have somnambulent or otherwise oblivious players in the group.
If you’re not taking PUGs into account, you’re not going to get the “easy” balance right.
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Striinger
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Random PUG lowest common denominator should never ever come into balance considerations. That’s like saying 4 man groups should be able to do the content designed for a full group. If you have an average skilled group of 6 players in appropriate gear for the stage of progression then the zone should be doable. Not easy/trivial, but doable.
If someone wants to run a group with their toddler healing, a merc tank and some random wizard that has a booger fixation (and won’t stop talking about it), then you’ll find more joy doing lower level content from a prior expac. The same holds for someone’s ungeared 8th alt they never learned to play using apprentice spells.
Dungeon finder failed because it didn’t make appropriate groups you’d want to try fun content with. Make better groups or stick to content that is fun with what you have. I hear pirate bay contested is pretty easy now.
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Dethdlr
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(Insert applause here) Very well put.
At the beginning of last expansion, if you took a group into Nexus Core or Fractured Hive without upgraded gear and without following the scripts, you’d spend a good bit of time in the prone (or fetal) position. Those were the “easy” zones from last expansion. I personally don’t consider Lost Caverns to be any more difficult than those two zones so I really don’t get how the “easy” zone of AoM is supposedly so drastically different and more difficult than ToV was. Or maybe people are complaining that ToV was too difficult and this just follows that pattern.
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Mermut
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In ToV we could take 2-3 ‘under performing’ toons into the first few instances and still succeed at launch The scripting and dps checks in even the easiest zones makes that undoable at launch. Lost Caverns being the only exception.. if the healer has the trigger for the cure curse for the final mob. The DPS check on Caldera means more then 1 dead weight toon and the dps check becomes tight.
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Feldon
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This post makes me sad. From launch until TSO, group zones were, by and large, doable by the broad spectrum of players. You could go LFG and find groups and have a lot of fun without having the “right” gear or a stacked group or reading casting bars (which didn’t even exist then) or ACT triggers or quick curse curing (group zones didn’t even HAVE curses if I remember right). Now, all heroic content in EQ2 is six-person raids with gear requirements, heavy scripting, ACT triggers, specific classes, stacked groups.
Want to know why nobody does Pick-up groups now? Because chance of success is slim to none! And that’s why I think Cross-Server Dungeon Finder might fail.
I know Dethdlr loves that all the heroic content now has a “progression” and has challenge, but I think it’s hurting server population. I’m lucky to be in Dethdlr’s guild (maybe not after this comment!) and we consistently group, learn the strats, craft gear for each other, test things out, swap in alts, etc. Basically all the stuff that raid guilds do but on a 6 person level.
The average 6 people in chat channels? They’re gonna say “Ain’t nobody got time fo that!” And if you think “well good riddance”, tell me how much development resources SOE is going to continue to throw at EQ2 if population drops by half?
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Dethdlr
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To tell, I’d have to see server population numbers. Could be hurting since the people with no interest in getting new gear and equipping it, or learning any of the scripts will never get any better and will never be able to do the tougher zones. But that was the case with ToV as well.
Could be helping since there’s stuff to work towards.
I saw the reverse happen with Skyshrine(not a full expansion, true), at least for us. The zones were so easy that before we even realized it, we’d cleared all but Underdepths. Cleared that on the second try. Then we were like “now what?” Do we now run the zones over and over to get the gear that we need to run… to run….. to run what? We’d already cleared it. Nothing to work towards. Still fun to run groups and hang out and BS, but we didn’t really have any goals. Prior to that, we had stuff to work towards.
So far this expansion I’ve run Lost Caverns numerous times and Hidden Caldera once. I’m happy with that. Means I’ve still got 8 heroic zones to work towards. I don’t have a full set of 4/4 blue gem gear but I know that if nothing else, I can get that out of Lost Caverns. And Lost Caverns gets easier each time we run it. Hopefully that will eventually lead us up through all the rest. Run zone, gear up, run next zone. I’m not expecting or wanting everything to be clearable by a pickup the first month. Means that those that put together a decent group will just steamroll right through it with no challenge at all. Maybe I’m just selfish.
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Feldon
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I’ve never said Skyshrine wasn’t disappointingly easy. It was an experiment in trying to give way expansion content. It didn’t work and we’re back to paid expansions.
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Mathafern
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For players who have a group or guild to back them, who are raiding anyway, and who can progress against these types of scripts and challenges- the game now has more to offer, and this will be a really enjoyable expansion.
For those who are more casual, have blue gear from last expansion because Stasis/Stratum shut them down, they will get to see one or maybe two zones of this expansion as it is now. They will get frustrated and leave the game. PUGs will be a disaster, though it could be argued that pugging is inherently flawed.
I personally plan to enjoy the expansion quite a bit- but I can see problems ahead if this pattern continues. Solo and Advanced Solos are not enough content to keep people playng if they are blocked from enjoying the bulk of the heroics. Maybe I’m just not seeing the grand plan; ancients and mythicals certainly do swing the balance if they drop frequently enough.
Basically this is a rockin’ expansion if you are hardcore, and is purely going to suck if you are casual.
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Feldon
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I’m lucky enough to be in a guild that consistently groups. If I weren’t, I might just skip this whole expac.
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Dethdlr
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The nice thing for casuals this expansion is the way they changed the gems. You can run the solo questline and get enough upgrades to survive Lost Caverns. Even if you only run Lost Caverns, you can build up enough shards to buy a full 4/4 blue gem set of gear. That’s new this expac.
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Zzzz'z
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Agree the progression/challenge is hurting server population on servers where population was already a struggle. On my server you only see the same 3-4 indivuals asking in general chat for groups. If you are not in an active guild that has enough tanks and healers to support building multiple groups each night then you are SOL or forced to look for another guild. Guilds are dying a slow painful death as players move on to games that are not aimed at hard core players.
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faerydae
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I’ve done the SIG line, got my mount, unlocked the right armour set from the merchant in PS. At this point am I still considered undergeared for the tier 1 heroics? I die very easily even in caldera. Am I now meant to grind ADV solo for the very small chance the correct yellow armour pieces will drop, before I can start heroics not much fun when the group side of the game is where the fun is at for me. The current 1tier heroics seem very unforgiving if 1 or 2 members of the group are even slightly under par. Just my experience so far.
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Stach
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Feldon and Dethdlr are both right. You need progression to keep the ones that want the challange interested, but you also need the easy heroic content to keep those that are new/not as well equiped/understanding of the game interested also. I find this expansion scripting and other things in heroic content makes it too hard for any zone for a PUG. The balance would be to make the lower end zones easier. ToV hit that right I believe, this one does not.
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Omence
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All of the needed forms of assistance are available to help PuGs overcome a majority of the current challenges in the AoM heroics.
Between in game chat and voice chat, communication is covered.
Detriment windows with displayed and detailed detriments per encounter and or buff packages (also visible) on the mob that give additional information. Narrative and NPC chat that can give additional description.
Using these tools alone can make for any PuGs success. “Dumbing” down or trivializing the content wont do anyone any favors. I personally like encounters with scripts that are anything other than the same old, “Turn and Burn” strats. It’s the scripted encounters that help players to grow in their ability and ready them for more challenges as they progress through the content.
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Feldon
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You want a Pick-up Group to execute this degree of coordination and strategy? Not going to happen.
From EQ2’s launch until The Shadow Odyssey, there were always group zones that could be done by any six players without voice, without calling curses, without watching casting bars. Hell, heroic zones didn’t even HAVE curses or casting bars until a few years ago. For all the nostalgia for the good-old-days, people are pulling some serious revisionist history shit here.
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Omence
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I understand what you mean. I just know the players have the ability and the tools to do more.
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Dethdlr
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For Lost Caverns? Here’s the big coordination: Interrupt a heal on one mob and wear this expansion’s gear on the final mob. What else is there to coordinate other than the cure? If you’re not wearing this expansion’s gear, the dot on the final mob is probably going to kill you. If you do, and you don’t cure the right thing, an add spawns. It’s not an instadeath if you don’t cure it, it’s an add. If you’re wearing last expansion’s gear, there’s a good chance that even the minor curse is going to kill you and unless you go in with 6 healers, you’re not curing all the curses. Was it hard the first few times we ran it? Yes. Is it hard now that we’ve done it a few times? No.
Speaking of revisionist history, which TSO zones did “any six players” clear at launch? I seem to remember getting flattened in all of them at launch until we learned the strats and had a proper group.
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Dethdlr
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Here’s a quote from someone back in 2009 about TSO:
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alQamar
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How bad is pugging on other servers?
My guild is dying since the middle of CoE and i play at odd times so i pugged all of ToV save for a few times we actually got a group together that only had guildies in it. I cleared all temple of veeshan instances dozens of times in pugs. I often came out as top dps in t1 and t2 playing my dirg . We still killed everythin rarely using voice chat.
Is it that bad on other servers?
I haven’t played in a while so I can’t say anything about the content in AoM.
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