Feldon I woke up this morning to an urgent e-mail from SOE’s Linda Carlson asking if I was able to verify that customers had in fact been billed since the SOE downtime started on May 2nd.
I went with the story that billing was still happening based on direct comments in the #eq2 chat, comments on the SOE Facebook wall, and of course some comments on EQ2Flames. It seemed unlikely that people on all 3 sites would lie about being billed after SOE services went offline. But you know what they say about assuming.
If it turns out that I’ve been trolled, well then I’m pretty sure it will be the dwarf tossing me in the pool at Fan Faire.
Hmm, why would this kind of check have to happen through EQ2Wire? (including having to give our name & e-mail address of the account). They have internal audit trails that can verify if billing has occured for customers… Therefore I’m a bit puzzled by this request. As we say: Once bitten twice shy.
Sharann,
I wrote the article, so I have to try to verify that I didn’t just post complete BS.
SOE has stated their position: They stopped billing.
hmmm, why should I keep coming here? I’ve just started coming since the servers have been down. Was an interesting place till this post. I didn’t read the first post till after this one and it makes the first look like a big joke, including making itself a big joke. Let’s see, ya went with just unknown sources it looks like and then when SoE tells you they stopped billing you keep it up?
Gonna quote ya here, ‘Not allowing customers to cancel a forthcoming recurring payment for a product they can’t deliver is probably not legal.’ few sections down it says, ‘UPDATE: SOE Customer Service does not currently have access to the Account system. Thus, they will not be able to change or cancel your account or billing at this point.’
Unless you have something against SoE I’d think about taking that first post down. I dont intend on coming back if you keep it up much longer without actual verification of somebody being charged.
Matt,
The problem is, I have nobody at SOE I can bring up these issues with. My last attempt to verify a story with them did not go well. When Kiara was EQ2 CM, I had someone to ask about these types of stories before posting them to get SOE’s position. Sometimes, it was an honest mistake that was quickly remedied. Sometimes I was able to get an official response. And sometimes, it was gonna be a negative story no matter what. But at least SOE had a chance to respond. These days, communication between SOE and Fan Sites at this point is nil, as any site attempting to cover the Velious launch can tell you.
Several customers have relayed to me that SOE Customer Service no longer has access to the Account system. That does not mean that automated billing did not continue after the outage. Unfortunately, I am not able to just take SOE at their word here. There have been too many promises broken and take-backs.
I have received so far 2 e-mails from players who provided me with their name and e-mail address. One indicates that they were billed on May 4th for 3 months of service. The other one indicates they were billed on May 2nd. Both might be chalked up to pre-authorizations days before the outage.
I have removed the contents of the original article until such time as it can be verified.
Nevermind the negative comments Feldon, as always your work on this site is first class, if only SOE cared and worked as hard as you do.
Keep up the great work.
I had 1 account billed on May 2nd, but I’m a little leery of giving anyone non-SOE my EQ2 account name, especially after what happened in April. If you can post Linda’s email I’ll gladly send her the information though to backup your claim.
been comming here for a year, ive always enjoyed your articles, i rarely post, but have always appreciated that there is more information here then anywhere else ( and without having to read dozens of pointless posts ), the fact your trying to verify rumors just reassures that, as Cavius said, thanks for your hard work
Ignore the neg’s Feldon. If SOE had a proper CM team, this wouldn’t have been an issue. Servers have been down going on two weeks now, and just now they are getting to you, a recognized community leader, that people shouldn’t be billed is the real story here, when dozens of people from independent sites (far more than the three you cited above) are all saying the same thing.
In the meantime, people have needed to rely on rumors. As far as I know, nothing has been said that SOE had ceased billing and in fact, some of their notifications implied that it would be continue.
Now, there are a lot of SOE trolls out there, and it can sometimes be hard to divine the truth, but individuals like Matt aren’t really serving to drive truth towards its logical conclusion.
Besides, as far as I can tell, you don’t advertise and it’s as though your incented to post erroneous information.
Good morning Feldon. Some of us do very much appreciate what you do. I have posted your post our guild forums,and in our alliance raid forum section. I know a lot of those just check our forums from work and all, and cant access the irc client.
So I cant promise that folks will come forward or not. I have no clue sometimes folks say things that are not true. Yes it does happen even in our forums.
I can verify that my 6 month sub was posted on the 4/20 according to my bank records. So it did not happen to me but close.
I just checked my account, and I was not billed this cycle.
I don’t see the big deal here. AYou report what you’re able to report. Seeing the vast lack of official updates from SOE, it’s no surprise that you can’t get any confirmation from them on anything. Also, it’s not like SOE has been running around stating that they are gonna keep charging people the game access fee even though the whole system is down. One of your last comments indicated 2 players that were charged right after the outage. Definitively looks like a pre-authorization to me.
IMHO you have been providing a great service here. Not everyone uses Facebook or Twitter (like myself) so this has been / is a fantastic site for the collection of information about the outage and the opinions of concerned users.
Please keep doing the top notch job you have been doing!
Shianne and I have both been billed this cycle.
keep up the good work Feldon!! this is the 1 stop shop for all My eq2 Info!!
I had two accounts that were scheduled to be billed on May 4th. Neither account was billed.
Feldon, my intention was not to sound negative about the work you are doing here at EQ2Wire which has always been top-notch! So my apologies if it sounded as such. It’s just that I was rather surprised about the request coming from SOE as we all know a lot of phishing is going around following the hack, and it has been reported as well that Sony admin profiles were stolen during the hack. Therefore, I just want to ensure we are protected when submitting personal information with regards to this issue. But I do trust EQ2 Wire and always have (even if I am not a frequent poster 😉
One thing to consider that Sony does not do the actual charging themselves. They will use a gateway program which is a company which has software which hooks into their system and that system is then connecte to their bank to allow transfer in for charges and out for refunds. When a person makes a charge depending on the type of card a number of things can happen which are totally out of SOE control. It can authorize a pre-charge which is more then the actual price ( I am sure some of you get gas and see a pre-charge for like 50 when you only spent like 30, it will get adjusted in a few days time.) If some people were charged it was because some companies/banks on recuring charge set aside the funds 48 hours in advance which is legal since you accepted you wanted this charge. So please go look, anyone who was charged earlier this month make sure you keep your statement and reference number for the charge to give SONY if they say they did nto receive payment.
And the number of people made to look like fools due to this debacle grows. Whether they deserve it or not, too — this site being a case in point. I really like EQ2 wire and will be visiting it often. My fandom here got me started on Riftwire, too! Also: Just checked, no bills since April 22nd.
This is directed mainly at Matt, but also at anyone else who might be feeling “sorry” for SOE.
Way back in the dawn of graphical MMORPGs, the players were fortunate enough to have an advocate known as Lum the Mad (and his team). They blogged about games before blogging was a thing, and cried foul on anything, no matter how small, that flew in the face of player’s rights (or even smacked of asshattedness). SOE was notorious for being tight lipped and condescending to their customers – very little has changed, but at least someone is trying to again call their attention to a major issue. I’ve seen the exact same reports that Feldon has – numerous people over numerous sites saying that they have been charged while SOE is unavailable. SOE is right to be concerned about this, and right to be asking for more information. It’s a damn shame that they don’t have the tools to gather it themselves, but at least they are trying something.
To tie this all together in a package – SOE was hard to housebreak the first time around – and we had a much shriller, more opinionated advocate back . If the reports of charges are true, then Feldon has done a great service for his fellow players in attempting to get it cleared up. If they are not true, then SOE has been informed of the rumors and has a chance to clear the air. I fail to see how Feldon, a visible member of the community, has done anything wrong in calling SOE’s attention to the matter, regardless of the end result.
I admit I was actually skeptical of the original article yesterday, since it seems like (according to EQ2Flames), the folks who say they have been billed probably had the charge already authorized on their cards and it just went through a few days later. I’ve yet to see anyone say they received a charge more than a few days after the outage started. Also, I highly doubt SOE would risk more damage by doing anything that could even vaguely be construed as illegal right now. I meant to comment on the article to this effect yesterday after I got home from work, but never got a chance to. 🙁
While this can likely be a lesson for the future in verifying information, I won’t really blame you. My theory is that a few people started complaining about it, and then the rumor spread like wildfire, whether or not people had actually experienced it. (Rather like the barely verified article on CNET warning of a third hack, that was then reported all over the news.) People seem to naturally assume the worst of SOE lately. Maybe it’s just me, but I also seem to sense a bitterness from you as well 😉
Have you tried to address your concern about the lack of communication with fansites with SOE directly? If not, you might have your chance now that you have Linda’s attention 😉 Otherwise, I would certainly suggest bringing it up at Fan Faire. The fansites are the ones that go out of their way to promote SOE for free. They help set the general tone of the community, and can be a great outlet to quell any misunderstandings about the company through a trusted source. SOE may need to be reminded of that.
As others have said, you’ve been doing a great job keeping us up-to-date during this outage. Rather than perusing through a million sites for information, I can just go here. Mistakes/lessons-learned aside, your efforts are greatly appreciated and I will continue to check here daily.
Also, I’d like to point out to everyone the donate button on this site. If you appreciate all the work he’s done, why not help him continue doing it, or cover part of the cost of a plane ticket to Fan Faire 😉
Simply posting a message saying you have been billed this cycle is worthless, if it was a day or two after the servers were taken down, even up to 5 days or so the billing had probably already been pre-authed and batched. Personally I don’t know or care if I have been billed or not, if I have I know it was an oversight and will be taken care of, I intend to continue to play anyway.
I think there is a big problem with droolers here starving for attention, people making claims there CC info had been used in the IRC chat and what not.
If you have been billed there is a simple answer to the matter, call SOE, or contact them through email and get it resolved. There is no justification for a chargeback here and if you do successfully get a chargeback it is simply because SOE doesn’t want to take the time and expend the manpower that it takes to defend it because they would win hands down. They will reverse the charge for you if you want but that is not a chargeback.
Billed on 05.05.2011 for 12,99€
I agree, Feldon you’re doing a great job here. Btw I’m missing the riftwire sticky banner – got kinda used to read eq2wire and then use it to switch – would you mind putting it back?
Feldon, are you sure you are not being scammed by a non SOE? I know I did not get billed, but I had just paid for a 3 month sub. I would recommend calling customer service directly as this sounds a bit off to me. From the other side, you do a great job and this is the first place I go for news. I get more news here than from SOE. Keep up the good work and ignore the naysayers.
The charge went through on MY credit card on May 2nd. Was it scheduled before they knew about the outage? Only SOE knows. Screenshot from my bank’s website:
Comment by Matt — May 13, 2011 @ 5:20 am
hmmm, why should I keep coming here? I’ve just started coming since the servers have been down. Was an interesting place till this post. I didn’t read the first post till after this one and it makes the first look like a big joke, including making itself a big joke.
Matt here is a ditty for you from the pinkster.
Matt Matt your such a twat you daddy probably hit you with a bat.
You have nothing to say except come and prey on a person that brings us a message per day.
Go get a life and consider this twice your not at all nice now begone you troll
shite.
Thumbs up for the pinkster yeahh !! lol
Great site! I appreciate what you do here!
I was scheduled to be billed on my four accounts on May 8-13. No billings have occured.
Thumbs down for the Pinkster. That was pretty bad ditty.
Dethdlr, I would contact both your bank and SOE to see when the charge was athenticated. It could have simply have been athenticated, but not posted (charged) until the banks opended back up for buisness.
May 1st, was a Sunday, Banks and Credit card processors generally do not post on Sundays. Your card may have been pre-athorized to be charged, but not actually posted/charged by SOE’s bank/processor until the next buisness day, which was Monday.
No billing here. My Station account is set up for recurring monthly payment by Credit Card. The last billing occurred 04/10. Nothing thereafter with a monthly charge to be expected around 05/10 which did not happen.
MY monthly charge went out as normal on the 4th of May acording to my bank 🙁
and btw Feldon. I believed it that billing was continuing, never doubted it what was posted pretty much anywhere. The reason for believing it without verifying is pretty much because everyone expects it from SOE. You scream “Fire” ones too often for no reason and you will burn.
I hope someone from SOE reads this :
You don’t like the negative publicity? Than how about actually talking with your customer base! Feldon is doing a great job trying to inform us and keep us in the loop, basically doing YOUR jobs. A lot of us are angry about this outage, but Sony continually makes it worse by ignoring us.
So many of us are in the dark and rely on your once-a-day cut and paste postings that are incredibly vague about the status of SOE / PSN and provide no information on when we can actually expect to play again. Maybe Blizzard could pull this and get away with it because of their massive playerbase, but EQ2 is a low population game and you are just absolutely killing it by driving us to try other games since we have ZERO clue when we will even be able to log on again.
If SOE could take the time to email Feldon, why not provide him with information that could actually appease the playerbase? How about providing some information on how things are progressing, even if vague? Instead it sounds like you are intimidating and trying to cover your you-know-what by just trying to spin off any type of further bad publicity. You continue to insult your entire playerbase.
Heya,
also i called today Support for German Speaking Country (DE/AT/CH) and GM Natasha Said to me she isnt sure if Billing is Currently active. But you must think about it that SoE Does not Billing self in EU, its from a Extern Company named Global Collect.
btw. she said Server should be up Quickly. Latest 17th May. we get a maximum of 45 Free Days added to our Account. ( als till 17th)
Greet Sole
Although the PlayStation Network has not yet officially back online it seems that there are encouraging signs on a probable recovery services. According to a user of NeoGAF, the internal network to developers is already running, and therefore the public should be reopened.
Other users of that forum have noticed that for short periods of time, in certain geographies, the PSN public is back online. Recently Sony has stated that the full restoration of services would take place before 31 May, with the main services like online game called online even before that date. In a next release still had shortened the time talking about “a few days”.
QUOTE
«The internal network to the developers of the PSN is back online, at least it seems that it is for some. It seems that the entire network, or at least online gaming services and login to the account.
I was scheduled for payment on may 7, and I was not billed.
05/02/2011 POS SOE*COMMERCE
I was NOT billed, but I wasn’t due for a payment anyway because my subs are year long. I do want to add that after I read yesterdays article, I did feel it was a good idea to call SOE Billing and make sure that my account was taken off auto-renew for the time being.
Also people try to remember Feldon is “ONE OF US”…he is a player, he is not trying scam, riot, or harm us in anyway. This article says “Name & Email” … not account info!! Please re-read it if you are having a hard time understanding it.
Feldon, as I’ve commented elsewhere, and I believe I do so here as well, most of the people saying they are billed after the down time are people who just don’t pay attention to how they get charged. Sony always puts a hold on your payment with your bank/card multiple days before they get charged. So in other words, if you got charged within 3-4 days of the game coming down it was very likely that you had technically already been charged before the game came down, they just didn’t take the money yet. It is a false statement people are making either because they don’t understand or because they are trying to make it sound worse then it is in order to get more out of the situation.
It seems there needs to be an explanation of how debit/credit transactions work, and hopefully this will clear up some misunderstandings. (The following has to do with debit cards only and may vary from bank to bank depending on their individual policies.)
With debit cards, there are two types of transactions: Debit or credit. The debit treansaction is any transaction where you use your pin and is immediately deducted from the account and is reflected in the current AND available balance.
The credit type of transaction works differently. The merchant will submit an authorization to the bank for a particular ammount, and the bank will “hold” those funds in reserve for the merchant. These funds should be reflected in the available balance, but not the current balance. The bank will then wait for up to 3 business days for the “receipt” to arrive so they can debit the funds from the current balance. The reason for this is in the case that the reeipt has a different ammount than the authorization or “held” ammount. This type of transaction does not use a pin.
As an example, if you go to a resturaunt and your order comes to 10 dollars and you use your card to pay for it. Your waiter will bring a receipt for you to sign and there is a place for you to add a tip. The bank has no idea that you placed a tip on the receipt until they receive it. So, until that is received by them, the bank will only hold the ammount the resturaunt told the bank was authorized. The bank will then debit the tip when they get the receipt and THEN the charge will show in available and current balances.
Another example is with a gas purchase. Usually, you will see a 1 dollar authorization after a gas purchase, but you put 50 dollars in your car. Once again, the bank is waiting for the receipt to come in so they can charge the full ammount.
So, for those of you who were charged on 5/2, the authorization most LIKELY was done 2-3 business days before and SoE would have sent the “receipt” before then and couldn’t retract that. I would suspect that people who weren’t billed after 5/4 would not see their bank accounts debited until the servers are back online.
well its nice everybody has calmed down the hysteria has faded and we are talking like respectable humans again.The servers will be up when they are up as for the news feldon brings it adds a little insight as to what might be happening.As reporting all news you have to get the details from other sources if the main source is not an option.This method leads to some true / speculative and wrong information but in no way detracts from the objective of information provided.On a funny note i wonder if we will get update #60 when the servers come online or will we have to have a down time for the installation hehehe.
Im going to put my neck on the line here and say the severs will be up by the 17th.
OI!!! who threw that EGG!!
I fully back Feldon and EQ2Wire, He posted what he felt was solid source info, then when it was brought to his att’n that MIGHT not be the case he Immediately posted again stating his info may not have been acurate as well as updating the original artice to match. He then asked for help to verify wether or not his post was acurate in an attempt to provide us with the truth.
Now you wanna flame him for that? Myself I give him a thumbs up and a round of bee…. Aplause 🙂
Keep it up Feldon!
Why do you guys think were getting a month free … because were getting charged for the month of down time, the free month is just to compensate probly cuz they dont wanna shut off everyones automatic payments = more money lost out the pocket while reeling with all this hacker crap.
Feldon, I don’t think you were trolled. This is simple misunderstanding, due to the way SOE handles card payments and internet banking platforms display them. In my case my card is charged on or around the 4th of the month, however SOE sends a “Pre-Auth” transaction several days in advance (Mine hit on 4/29/2011) and it puts a hold on the funds. This “Pre-Auth” appears as a “pending” transaction until SOE “Posts” or completes it on the 4th (which never happened). If left uncompleted the hold transaction “falls off” after a few days (on the 12th in my case) and so the funds were never actually collected by SOE. However for a period of time there was a transaction from SOE visable on my account. I would expect this is the same experience many customers had and it can be very confusing because many online systems do a poor job of clearly explaining the pending transactions and holds.
On a personal note, I really appreciate everything you do. SOE has provided so little information and you have done a fabulous job keeping us as much in the loop as possible. As well as trying to keep the people below the boiling point. Your post yesterday regarding this issue had excellent advice and was totally uninflammatory. Kudo’s to you and keep up the good work.
Graf
Most likely, the charges that people like me have seen that posted after May 2nd were started before the servers were taken down. I personally didn’t worry about the charge and figured it would all work itself out when this is all behind us. The problem though, as many others have said, is communication. Here are some quotes from SOE that pertain to billing and what they plan to do:
SOE Said:
So if the credit card database is in a separate and secured environment, is it still running and processing charges or have they suspended charges until this issue is resolved? Lets see what they had to say…
SOE Said:
Why isn’t there a number 4? They could have prevented this completely by saying this:
SOE SHOULD Have Said:
That would have prevented this whole thing! Here’s another thing they posted about billing:
SOE Said:
Again, why not take the time to mention that the “current billing cycle” was NOT ACTUALLY BILLING anything until after service was restored?
Instead, the first word we get from SOE telling us that billing has actually officially been suspended comes in an email to Feldon???
I love ya SOE and I’m not going anywhere, but come on. Something as significant as turning off billing should have been included in your updates.
Thanks for your work here Feldon, always appreciated.
Thanks for this, Feldon. It takes a lot to redact an article while conducting more research, as you have now done.
For clarity:
– When SOE services were taken offline, this included the billing server. It’s down. No billing has taken place since.
– Charges can take up to five days (sometimes longer) to process depending on the financial institution, so they could certainly have shown up later.
– Because the servers are offline, players have been unable to cancel accounts. However, our CS is doing so manually for any who call to request it.
– Bottom line, with regard to account status and billing: anyone can receive a direct, honest answer and assistance from our CS folks. They are just a phone call away: 1-858-537-0898, from 10:00am – 7:00pm PST, Monday through Friday, except holidays. Give CS a chance!
Fan Faire + Feldon + pool sounds good, but I’ll settle for sharing a beer, especially if he’s buying.
We hope to see you all again (insert acceptable alternative for the much-maligned ‘SOON’ here), hehe 😉
Linda Carlson
Director, Global Community Relations
Sony Online Entertainment
1 – Thanks to Linda Carlson, for stepping up and actually communicating. Your colleagues would do well to follow your example.
2 – My payment, usually around the 6th, was not taken this month. This squares with what has been reported so far; those who had a payment taken probably had the signal sent before the servers went down, or at least before the severity of the downtime was fully grasped.
3 – Matt, please be still now.
Feldon does excellent work.
Carry on, good sir.
(Haiku >> rap)
and how many days did it take to finally get some sort official responce?
Still not good customer relations no matter how you slice it!
And yes Feldon thank you for putting up with all of this.
I’ve posted a followup article:
https://eq2wire.com/2011/05/13/soe-billing-stopped-may-2nd-credit-authorization-process-caused-later-charges/
The most interesting thing to me about all this is that SOE obviously reads the Wire or they wouldn’t have noticed what was being said. Bearing in mind that this is not a “fansite” where you need to smile at whatever SOE does, even if you need needles in your face to do so, it’s a feather in Feldon’s cap.
Keep up the good work!
Give CS a chance????
Bottom line is that providing 9 hours of support to a set of games that run 24-7 with players around the world is called PART TIME SERVICE. We the customers pay and use your game 24 hours a day 7 days a week. We are giving you a chance to provide us service but daily find it lacking. Gosh, you know what we could do to make it even easier for you to provide us customer service?
We could…log into a customer service page and type out our concerns so you would not need to be bothered logging it yourself…..
We could then wait until your team has completed its morning breakfast meetings to reply to our inquiries……..
You could then tell us there is nothing that can be done via a digital message and you do not have to again be bothered listening to another pesky customer who is not satisfied……
Oh wait, we cannot provide you with our own customer service now because you can’t keep a group of kids out of your servers and away from our records!
And now I read how you, SOE, are going to make good to all your loyal customers for the inconveniences you have caused….
Double XP? Is this limited to only those customers who were affected by your poor handling of on personal information, or will all new accounts get this as well? Will this be provided when it is convenient for you to type a few lines of code into the server? This does nothing for those of us not on-line at the time. Psssst, we are not on your schedules and have millions of jobs, families, and other events that most likely will not match your schedule that day. Customer service score = 2/10.
A 24 hour Double XP potion available when each customer can make time to benefits from it? Customer service score = 10/10
Double Guild XP? Customer Service Score = 5/10. Have you forgotten some guilds cannot use it? Or have I forgotten that you are not only good at part time customer service, but also at selective customer service?
Loot Bonanza?? What the heck is that? A surprise? Your surprises this month have been terrible! And is the “reward” something that any new comer will have the benefit of?? Customer service score 0/10.
City Festivals? Taking credit for something you were already planning to provide?? Again, something any new comer to the game who was not affected by this issue can enjoy? Customer service score = 0/10
Money-ofthesometimeshefeelslikeanuttribe
Thanks for the update, Brasse
Bit late i know but you didn’t get trolled Feldon just simple misunderstanding that’s all,something that frankly shouldn’t have happened if SOE had been on the ball on this issue their communication has been woeful.
I didn’t get charged (i said that in another post) and thought it odd people where getting charged but at least there’s clarity now,just make sure none of the genuine info disappears in case something amiss does happen 😉
Just imagine a world of only good existed we loved the earth and each other.We strived for the advance of mankind and the evolution of all living things.Now the world doesn’t exist like this and if we was to calculate the sum would = good = no greed compassion help no ownership true amalgamation love of all and everything.In years to come mankind will have no choice other than to accept his fate but we are mere children, blink of an eye in the time of the cosmos.I find it fabulous that only 100 years ago electricity wasn’t in workers homes now we complain.I love how man forgets his past so quickly and see only the immediate future.I do work for people who need help and instead of worrying about EQ2 ,worry about the old woman old man young child with bruises the women who wears the dark glasses to hide an addiction the neighbor with his curtains closed for the last x ammount of years.All im am trying to say if you play EQ2 you love people you strive to help and build take that attitude and your charisma and make your real enviroment a more sociable environment.Maybe you wouldnt have to seek to escape and you could make your own pocket on nirvana.