Might have something to show us at soe live? Yea I got lots of thoughts about how bad things are going for them on the project. Couple that with the post from Smed about never being able to create enough content for players. I not got a good feeling about this.

I was kind of half way looking forward to this, just hoping they don't try to make us all move to eqnext, like they tried to make all the folks over to eq2, and we see how that worked.

I wasn't expecting EQNext even to go into closed beta until 2014 and I had mentally pencilled in 2015, probably late 2015 at that, as the earliest. launch date. Given the news about scrapping development and re-starting not once but twice I really wouldn't have been surprised if we had to wait longer even than that.

Smed's teaser tweet was, I think, very carefully and cleverly phrased. Most things he says are although he's wasting his subtlety because people always read into everything he says exactly what they want him to say.

Whenever it comes, though, and whatever it turns out to be, I'll be playing it.

I m not holding my breath for eqnext and i bet not many (if any) EQ fan (1999) do...

So then this gamasutra quote is way off target as well??

"Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we're doing late [this] year - and I don't mean a beta," says Smedley

All of the above, plus I really don't think they want to compete with The Elder Scrolls Online release.

They talk about eqnext being a sandbox game where the people run the world. I think they are having trouble because they don't know how to make a game like that. Not to mention there is already word of other games using the same idea. It is gonna have to be one heck of an amazing game to draw any interest at this point and I think they are running out of ideas.

"They talk about eqnext being a sandbox game where the people run the world. I think they are having trouble because they don’t know how to make a game like that. "

They already made one of the best of those...and then ran it into the ground. SWG?

Without LucasArts messing around with the game (EQ ist SOEs and only SOEs property) they'll have a better chance...who was that arrogant LucasArts guy who wrote after the NGE diseaster something like "Let me get this straight...you were sitting around a campfire watching people dance and play music and LIKED that?"

Besides SWG was released at least a year too early, by the time it was mostly feature complete and bug free, many people had already left. Unless SOE really needs money NOW they won't repeat that mistake.

You cannot take anything that Brasse said to me as factual since she admitted herself EQNext is behind lock and key and she knows nothing. Smeds exact words were posted later in that same thread and what she said and Smed said are not the same. I would not take it as a debunk at all, I would take Brasse's comment in this situation with a grain of salt. Smed does after all supersede her.

Here is the link to the full conversation. The order in which it should be read is typed on the side. https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8nB5tzmJ3pU/URrZhN67PaI/AAAAAAAABFU/8cG-9TZsQE8/s912/Proper%2520Twitter.png

Smed did not infact say SOMETHING as Brasse states, His exact words were. “Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we’re doing late [this] year – and I don’t mean a beta,” says Smedley.
This is NOT "something" This implies a HUGE Everything.

My entire point here is that the full conversation which was not looked at nor posted, clearly shows that neither speculation for or against launch this year was validated.

Why would Brasse know anything?

She is the Director of Global Community Relations for SOE. However she states that even she does not know anything about the game. I would think she would know but if the game is really black boxed then she is telling the truth and she is speculating along with us.

“They talk about eqnext being a sandbox game where the people run the world. I think they are having trouble because they don’t know how to make a game like that. ”

They already made one of the best of those…and then ran it into the ground. SWG?

Emphasis on running it into the ground. From what they've said about PlayerStudio being a "sandbox element," I tend to doubt their definition of the term is the same as mine (as an SWG vet).

Khayos, we get your point. You are under the assumption that EQ Next is releasing at the end of this year. Roger, bud. Message received.

Now, you can continue twittering Linda, and she will continue (through gritted teeth) to keep politely telling you that you are reading too much into Smedley's quote. You can also come here, and anywhere else, and repeat yourself..again, and again.

But, ya know what? Smed likes to talk, and brag. In fact, he's been got a Master's degree in Hype and Spin. While some people would like to believe that somewhere along the line he got cryptology training in eastern Europe to imbed hidden meanings in his public interviews, he's just not that clever.

So, until he says, "Hey folks, EQ Next is releasing in 2013!!!", I'll just assume its still being worked on by pizza-fed slaves.

Release speculation aside, I certainly hope SoE considers multi-platform access to EQnext. I believe that's the way of the future for MMO's. Play it on your console or PC at home, and then have (at least limited) access to the game away from home on your smartphone or tablet. I'm not saying doing full raids on a smartphone, but having some kind of game access away from a console/PC would be ideal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetside_2

PS2 was released in 3 years roughly since them taking surveys (probably less than that I have read its actual development time was 1.5 years due to switching to the Forgelight engine midway).

The beta was 4 months? Roughly.

Feldon, I think you're looking too much into the standard and norm and not so much into what the Forgelight engine has opened up to SoE. Most games lease or buy the Unreal engine and that is what takes a lot of time. Having their own engine that can mold and work on as they go is how the development time has been halved.

So 1.5 year development time for PS2 and yet you're stating it's absurd for a sandbox MMO that will probably lack massive quests to be done in 3 years? I find your lack of research absurd, sir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest_Next

The 2013 date is even marked on Wiki as stated in the interview. Get over it lol. Was even listed in a business week magazine with being released this year along with ps4. Might want to check your facts a little deeper before calling people absurd (which means you're calling Sony's shareholders absurd at this point even).

the idea that EQNext is ready for release after just 3 years of development is absurd.

Everquest 1 went from concept to publishing in three years.

How absurd!

Listening to Smed's comments, and talking about the content never being enough I'm inclined to believe what we get this year (or early next if it slips) will be the core of the game.

If the focus of the content goes from what they create to what players do then that would make sense.

Personally though this isn't what I'm looking for in a game, I want both player content and npc content in the game. Its absurd that nothing happens in the game world when a player isn't standing close by, so why not give us a living breathing game world and then let us find our way in it.

That to me would be a very cool idea, if its in Everquest with Frogloks

the idea that EQNext is ready for release after just 3 years of development is absurd.

Not so absurd when you consider they have functional middleware and graphics engines already in use by a major MMO, access to over a decade's worth of existing MMO code and in-house tools, and a sizable support infrastructure in place. Trion managed to push an MMO out the door in 5 years, and they were a start-up. SoE are hardly new to this game, and don't require the ramp-up time that many other companies need.

So even assuming EQNext has only been in development for 3 years, I'd estimate them to be about as far along as 5 or 6 years for almost any other dev company. IMO of course.

We had Brasse on our show a couple weeks back and we talked about SMegs Gamasutra interview. All he said was that players would get their hands on something that SoE had been working on. No where did he ever mention that it was EQ Next, everyone just assumed. That said I would still expect there to be information available at fan faire. Possibly a playable demo level or at least some artwork.

Of course people are welcome to argue what they want (without insulting or flaming others), but the idea that EQNext is ready for release after just 3 years of development is absurd.

3 years of development with an already fully functional engine is actually quite generous provided they had no major setbacks, the game is likely mostly finished (in a developmental state) and ready for QA to hit it hard if they haven't already been doing that.

Release speculation aside, I certainly hope SoE considers multi-platform access to EQnext. I believe that’s the way of the future for MMO’s. Play it on your console or PC at home, and then have (at least limited) access to the game away from home on your smartphone or tablet. I’m not saying doing full raids on a smartphone, but having some kind of game access away from a console/PC would be ideal.

Multi-platform is when something is released on console and PC, yet the games are still separate. I agree that this is probably the future of the industry. What you are talking about is called Cross Platform. The ability for the exact same game to exist on console and PC and be interchangeable. Sadly this is long from ever happening as SoE and Microsoft do not get along and neither will make any consolations so that a game can be compatible with both systems together. Ask the developers of Defiance about how well their talks went with the companies when they tried to accomplish this. The attempt ended in disaster and to this day, no game is yet to be cross platform compatible, not even the Magic the gathering card game.

@ Trueflight

Multi-platform is when something is released on console and PC, yet the games are still separate. I agree that this is probably the future of the industry. What you are talking about is called Cross Platform. The ability for the exact same game to exist on console and PC and be interchangeable. Sadly this is long from ever happening as SoE and Microsoft do not get along and neither will make any consolations so that a game can be compatible with both systems together. Ask the developers of Defiance about how well their talks went with the companies when they tried to accomplish this. The attempt ended in disaster and to this day, no game is yet to be cross platform compatible, not even the Magic the gathering card game.

I'm pretty sure that FF11 was on the PS2, PC, and 360. While one can make the argument that they sort of "switched" to Microsoft in the later days, the game is still playable on both platforms.

Kruzzen said:
They talk about eqnext being a sandbox game where the people run the world. I think they are having trouble because they don’t know how to make a game like that. Not to mention there is already word of other games using the same idea. It is gonna have to be one heck of an amazing game to draw any interest at this point and I think they are running out of ideas.

Thahts not true @ all. SoE made one of the Best Sandbox MMO of all time with Old SWG. They know how to do it, the problem with SWG was they have to do what LucasArts wanted. With EQN this restriction are not there, maybe we get a SWG in Norrath universe....that would be awesome

Doesn't it cost like $40,000 to send a patch to a console (At least the xbox) or something crazy like that, I think SOE would go bankrupt if they were charged $40,000 a patch lol

@Sole

I will leave opinions ass to whether SWG was the best sandbox game of all time or not. lol. I do know that SOE has a hard time letting things be run by players. lol. You say that lucas controlled the swg experience, and that may be true, but with that being said, SOE has no real experience running a sandbox game. I will wait to see the actual game, but I do not hold high hopes that they can let players build the world.

@Trueflight

well that's sad considering how many people are moving away from PC use to tabkets and other portable devices. I know many kids nowadays won't play a game unless they can pick it up and take it with them. my son is even gotten rid of his xbox and ps3. I think the industry is going to have to adapt or it will be the death knell for them

Playstation 4 is having a big press release on Febuary 20th. Live! got moved up to what , August ? If EQnext is gonna be a launch title for PS4, stands to reason both be out before Xmass.

The real questions should be - does sandbox mean an extra-deluxe version of dungeonmaker ? The last 2 years of EQ2 have been a pre-alpha for "ideas" as far as I'm concerned, that's why they don't ever follow up on anything they've added.

EQNext has also had double the development time so far and as far as I can tell every resource put on it.

What people expect it to have and what it does have is two different things lol. I never said we'll see a fully decked out game in that time. I think as one person said we'll get a basic shell of the game released this year as a sandbox, something to get us addicted and hooked. Then we'll see a roadmap type system like PS2 with consistent modifying/updating. I'm almost certain it will be a f2p system like PS2 in fact I just don't know how they'll do it (that's more of a personal assumption though just because of their success with that model).

So although I agree that it does take more to make an rpg than a fps. They have had double the development time and I disagree that we will have everything at launch.

EQNext has also had double the development time so far and as far as I can tell every resource put on it.

It's also been 'burned to the ground' twice in that time. Unless it's a case where the mechanics have been ready for some time and it's the nature of the content that's been totally revamped, that doesn't exactly lend itself to quick deployment.

It’s also been ‘burned to the ground’ twice in that time. Unless it’s a case where the mechanics have been ready for some time and it’s the nature of the content that’s been totally revamped, that doesn’t exactly lend itself to quick deployment.

As people have stated before, just because the conceptual level has been 'burned to the ground' in no way means that they're starting from a black slate every time. Art, music, and sound assets were likely kept, as were basic AI systems and the engine's framework.

Frankly, I'd be far more willing to believe that the game hasn't actually been in full, active development for as long as they're claiming.

If EQNext were being developed by a startup, then sure 3 years would be pushing it. But considering that they already have much of the groundwork done, and indeed a major game already released on the engine, it isn't that much of a stretch.

Of course people are going to expect a lot of what is in EQ/EQ2 to be in EQNext. SOE has one major advantage in this respect however - they have the code to both of those products. This isn't some Joe Schmoe on kickstarter funding his newest pet project. This is a major organization with tens of thousands of man-hours invested in in-house toolchains that can get stuff done quickly. Quests, dungeons, spells, gear itemization - all that stuff that is mostly content, not coding. Plus, by saying EQNext will be a sandbox, they can quell some of the expectations since content is player driven - look at EVE, which has very little comparable PvE content, but is very successful nevertheless.

That is a disconnect too wide and fragile to be said in the same sentence.

Fair enough, though it's not like they're having to go back and make Forgelight from scratch every time they change their mind about basic game decisions, which is what folks seem to be implying.

At any rate, it's fairly obvious what Smedley was implying, just as it's fairly obvious that Brasse is now walking it back.

If they don't deliver at EQNext, no amount of attempts to walk it back will be very productive, though.

You mean successful in the sense that there are players out there that think that the visual medium is a cross between a blank sheet of paper coloured pitch black, supplanted by several thousand shapes that look like space ships all in one place, firing at each other in a tangled mess nightmare not unlike the minds of the gamers that play that kind of thing.

I can tell you probably haven't played EVE past perhaps the introduction missions. That's fine, you're welcome to your opinion, however wrong they may be. The fact is that EVE has managed to consistently increase its subscriber base when other MMOs have experienced marked losses. It's OK to not enjoy sandboxes - there are plenty of theme parks out there for you to partake in, WoW being one of them.

The biggest mistake people make is assuming PvE and Sandbox are mutually exclusive. They're not. There is plenty of opportunity for SoE to appease the unimaginative masses with prepackaged, pre-scripted PvE content, as well as provide rich sandbox tools for those who want to actually experience a deep metagame that expands outside the game.

I’ll tell you what I think because I’m pretty damn smart in this area.

No, you're just someone who believes they are smarter than they are. A far more dangerous prospect.

Ever Questcraft...bring it on!

I remember someone mentioning Everquest and Minecraft in the same sentence. I think I liked it...a lot.

I just wonder if SOE released a fairly good, very capable in-game content creation system, would people subscribe our pay to be "world builders"? What I'd you could make a few bucks from people who use your content? Hmm, LOL

I can just imagine Feldon continent where Sony sells boat tickets from the main island for only 4500 SC (each direction). They'd give Feldon 5 SC (but they'd offer 80% cut to him initially, but after some SOE math it'd be the 5).

I'd pay at least once to visit Feldatopia and pick up a mount from the premier source for phat rides, the Dethdlrship. LoL

Happy V-day everyone!

Just my 2cp

If EQ Next gonna break through this next generation MMO war, then it must have at least something which is totally different from them, not just another sandbox MMO.

And about PvE, maybe it is time not to PvE but something else. (But absolutely not RvR, WvW, etc. kind of things)

I like the comment "be like all other sandbox MMOs," because there are so many mainstream ones currently lol.

Regardless, to debate what the game will be like or what it will take to make or break it or how good it will be is already pretty much decided by the devs at this point and we'll just have to wait and see..........this year! HA!

If they have a good API, Scripting language and level designer the I think you'll see allot of good player content. If your forced to go out and get 3DMax or the likes or their script language is like EQ2 UI's (yea I know its not really even a language)then its on the fail boat.

You are making me very sad Feldon, I was looking forward to playing EQNEXT this year. Unfortunately your argument makes sense.

People are going to expect EQNext to have the same functionality on day 1 that has evolved organically over many years in EQ and EQ2. At launch, people will except EQNext to have:

Smedley already announced that they scrapped two complete concepts/builds and are making something completely different that isn't based around the EQ/WoW formula.

If people are honestly looking to forward to another Evergrind using the same mechanics as EQ1 or EQ2 they'll be in for a surprise.

It’s also been ‘burned to the ground’ twice in that time.

That's the development process of game making tbh. Games that tend to be over 2-9 years in development could have multiple builds/concepts/ideas that were placed on the table and then scrapped. Famous example is TF2 from Valve. It had a total of 5 completed games that were scrapped and never released to the public until they made the final version 2 years prior to its release.

Of course people are going to expect a lot of what is in EQ/EQ2 to be in EQNext. SOE has one major advantage in this respect however – they have the code to both of those products.

They have the code? What's that suppose to mean? Except both EQ1 and EQ2 are on completely different engines. One of them being a middleware engine. You can't just transfer programming to another engine with another game, it doesn't work like that.

As people have stated before, just because the conceptual level has been ‘burned to the ground’ in no way means that they’re starting from a black slate every time. Art, music, and sound assets were likely kept, as were basic AI systems and the engine’s framework.

They did show pictures and then cross them out at last years SOE Live, so that hints that even the graphics are scrapped....

Thinking here on Smed's comment again I believe they were initially overoptimistic on what they could deliver. As for the sandbox/very different version of the game, this could backfire badly if they release something that really does not meet players expectations even if it is a good game (ie it still has to have the sort of gameplay to satisfy the EQ crowd, even if it has other gameplay styles).

Quite the armchair producer, developer, 'I know everything there is to know about SOE' thread.

Fun lunch break reading.

Like your long comment Feldon. Seriously. Reality checks are necessary every now and again.

I find comedy in the people who tend to hold Everquest to it's name and think it means that you follow a beaten path of quests, forever.

Yet EQ1 had minimal quests and if anything was more sandbox type in terms of making your own adventure and deciding where to go and what to do and making your own quest (not just following yellow exclamations and question marks).

I also find comedy in the fact that we keep saying that the developers are devoting time to quests...in a sandbox MMO lol.

The next everquest will likely look and perform nothing like either EQ1 or 2, and has said as much by anyone involved with the game. That being said, the development time of course is going to be longer than any other game they've done, as the entire process is new. And has been noted by others, they've already scrapped two entire iterations, the timetable of which we have no idea, so they really haven't even put 3 years into this current build.

The days of level grinding are thankfully coming to a close, and I highly doubt you'll see anything resembling that in any high profile MMO going forward, and EQ next will not fall into that trap again.

Well if they go cross platform, I hope we don't get another piece of junk ported UI like DCUO, and PS2. If you ever played either you know what I mean. I do have an xbox but I hardly ever play it the main reason is the clunky UI. You get a ported closed source UI like dcuo and what do you think the pc folks are going to do.

Just saying I hope they don't mess this up.

I can imagine when Smedley showed the concept to the EQ team...long pause instead of applauds as anticipated...announcement of departing team members, and a hint that programming is commonly heavily outsourced....then applauds.

I don't know how it would have really gone down, but never forget that the designers and programmers are people trying to hold down a job just like everyone else. They just attempt to implement someone else's creative vision the best they can.

Whatever the result and timing I hope its a success even if I don't choose to play it for the sake of the fellow grunts who tow the line every day.

Looks like now there might also be hints at EQNext and PS2 possibly being cross platform....only really vague hints though.