StationCash: Cure and Luck Potions Pay-to-Win?

Written by Feldon on . Posted in Free-to-Play (EQ2X), StationCash

UPDATE from Piestro:

The potions were put in on accident and quickly removed. If we do decide to reintroduce consumables we’ll certainly mention it.

Taking a page from Disney, SOE placed certain StationCash Marketplace items on hiatus a while back into a so-called “Brell Serilis vault“. This type of scheduled demand is intended to drive sales and create pent-up demand when said items are returned to the market. An example is the Prowler mounts first introduced just over 2 years ago.

We paid little attention to the unlocking of the vault announcement as SOE already does a fine job of communicating their weekly StationCash deals, to the exclusion of almost everything else about EQ2.

As a result, we missed two items which were previously EQ2X / Free-to-Play-only which slipped through. Cure Potions that cure 500 levels of any kind of detrimental, and Luck Potions that increase coin drop amounts from mobs by 25% (we are attempting to confirm if this includes or excludes treasure chests containing platinum).

The Brell Serilis Vault items are available until May 6th (we’re not sure if that is May 5th @ 11:59pm PST, or sometime on May 6th). Discuss this on the EQ2 Forums

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Comments (40)

  • Fievall

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    I could care less. What I would consider pay-to-win would be a potion that one shots heroics, and epic mobs. Anything else is just optional. The only problem I see from one of these potions is the Cure potion, in PvP. That is PvP’s problem. I play only PvE (and have no need of either potions). If it really is game breaking, then PvP people need to let SoE know they would like to not have this potion to work in PvP.

    Reply

  • Anaogi

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    If anyone believes the timing of this–coinciding with the one-day stealth triple SC event–is anything other than intentional, they’re sadly mistaken. This has all the hallmarks of the test balloons–flood the players with SC, then push out those two potions to see who bites. This is how the road is paved, people.

    We knew this was where they wanted to go–all the words say no, but every action says yes. If anyone needs further proof, mark my words, they’ll talk about bowing to player desires, and limited classes of items, while introducing more test cases and then pushing it further.

    This is it. The beginning of the end.

    Reply

  • Feldon

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    What I would consider pay-to-win would be a potion that one shots heroics, and epic mobs.

    Gotta save something for EQNext.

    Reply

  • Dellmon

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    As a result, we missed two items which were previously EQ2X / Free-to-Play-only which slipped through.

    And thus the slippery slope gets a few degrees steeper…

    Reply

  • Fievall

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    @Feldon I doubt it. I’m definitely not a fan of most of the things SOE has done to eq2 lately, but I’m not that cynical. That is saying allot too. If you would talk to my wife, who also plays, she would tell you how much I rage about changes in the game. But that being said, the market place has never been a contention. Because in the end it has no effect on me. If someone else buys these items, it doesn’t effect my ability to run a dungeon.

    Reply

  • Feldon

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    These cure potions cure 500 levels of detrimental effects of ANY kind. If they cured noxious, arcane, elemental, and trauma all at the same time, you can bet your donkey that if you were in a raid guild, they would not just ask, but EXPECT you to buy them, since it would make the raid force that much more effective than one that is only using in-game acquired cure potions.

    If you took the poll, you know that SOE wants to add a group/raid rez similar to an ability only available to Inquisitors ClericsImmaculate Revival.

    The day when something appears on the Marketplace that cannot easily be acquired in-game, yet your guild or group EXPECTS you to have, is coming.

    Reply

  • Snowdarc

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    What I would consider pay-to-win would be a potion that one shots heroics, and epic mobs.

    Didn’t they have something like that on F2P before the merger?I seem to recall reading that they needed it to kill Lord Bob of all things…I may be wrong.

    Reply

  • kal

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    @Snowdarc

    The item killed any non named solo or heroic mob. Lord Bob was bugged and it worked on him.

    Reply

  • Fievall

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    @Feldon I was in a major raiding force. On crushbone. I’ve been full time raiding in EQ2 for for four years. I only recently stopped raiding due to not having enough time with a baby. I can tell you we had no problem taking out hard mode content. Any raiding guild that requires a market place cure needs to fire their healers. Period.

    These will not affect raiding. The recast time is too long for one. There are also cures in raids that you don’t do. In TSO it was cure everything. In SF it was cure very few things, except for curses, but you had to make sure you cured the right one or very bad things happened. DOV has moved back to more of cure everything, with a dash of watch what you cure on curses.

    Long gone are the days of the cure fest that was TSO. We as a raid force though still keep cure pots on all of the raid force for when the healer might be stunned. But those are supplied by tser in the raid force.

    Immaculate Revival is a Heroic end line. So both Temps, and Inquiz have it. Which might I add I love. I have a maxed out Inquiz and Temp among my army of toons. As for the self rezing. Who cares. It doesn’t affect you. And if a raiding force needs you to buy rez pots, then you need to find a new raiding force, b/c the one you are in is full of fail.

    I can tell you though I can only think of a few times where Immaculate Revival actually saved the raid force from wiping. It is mostly used in the raid for rezing the raid after a wipe so we don’t spend 7 minutes running back to the raid mob, b/c SOE hasn’t put in enough revive points, in the zone. The reason why it isn’t as useful as you might think is for a simple reason. If a important group goes down like the MT, or the OT group then chances of surviving go way down, for the simple fact that we run into allot of mobs that have to be split. If one tank takes both the named, and the adds they get one shot in more then a few encounters. If any other group is lucky enough to have a temp or a inquiz in them they are a much less important group, and can afford to be rezzed by the dirge, and nek.

    In the end the sky is not falling. So in this case don’t blame SOE for the short comings of a raid leader who doesn’t know how to build a wining raid force.

    Reply

  • Lempo of Everfrost

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    @Feldon

    The day when something appears on the Marketplace that cannot easily ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT be acquired in-game, yet your guild or group EXPECTS you to have, is coming.

    Where can I get a cure pot in game that will do this or anything even remotely close. Also why the hell can my Alch not make a mastercrafted one size fits all cure pot?

    Reply

  • Muspell

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    Regarding the Luck potion… not sure if anyone else sees it this way but that potion can almost be viewed as SOE allowing us to buy Platinum coin vis SC.

    Reply

  • Charn

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    Wait . . . ANY detrimental? Do these things cure curses as well? I don’t see a difference if it cures “The Big Four” (noxious, elemental, Arcane, Trauma); I’ve got all 4 in my inventory, I click on the detrimental, it uses the appropriate potion, all is well. But if this cures curses as well it’s a complete game changer. As of now, only healers can cure curses. If we can cure curses ourselves it WILL completely change the face of raiding and I can COMPLETELY see some guilds expecting these to be bought and “cure your damn-selves” be the motto of the times.

    So, DO these cure curses, too?

    Reply

  • Feldon

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    I just think it’s funny how people can look at what LoN and StationCash started as, and where they are now, and not see a trend. No one raindrop thinks it is responsible for the storm.

    Reply

  • Feldon

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    Saw this posted on the EQ2 Forums by Raknid and thought it was hilarious:

    I just wanted to post my gratitude for fufilling your(SOE) promise that we would have polls before anything from the old EQ2X market made it’s way onto the SC shop.

    When you(SOE) follow through and keep your word it is a resounding mark for your reputation as a product/service provider, and only further enhances your existing reputation as a AAA gaming company.

    I look forward to being able to offer my further input in helping guide you to develop content/services on this game for which I pay.

    Reply

  • thait

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    If i remember right what it costs per SC then for 15 dollars you could get 30 of those pots. I’ll outright say someone is insane if they are going to spend 15 dollars on something they will run out of in no time flat. It’s the same reason i don’t buy research reducers, i won’t waste the money on that stuff.

    As for the luck pot. If that only covered mobs then i wouldn’t care in the least. Boosting the money gotten from a mob from 3 gold to 6 gold isn’t even worth caring about. Even if it added to chests that isn’t boosting even plat chests by a large amount. And considering how easy it is to run PR for loot runs i can’t see anyone but people who have more money than brains spending anything on that.

    @Lempo

    I don’t mind that we have a pot for each detrimental, though i wish your Alch could make a curse pot, i would love one of those. And still don’t understand why there isn’t one.

    Reply

  • Mach

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    If this cures curse I’d say it’s pretty big

    Reply

  • Fievall

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    @Feldon Of course there is a trend, but no where as bad as some make it out to be. LoN has been pretty much the same stuff over and over again with the minor exception. And to be honest, since they started giving 5 free packs a month I stopped buying them. What messed up LoN for me is where they made it where you can’t play with your older cards. I really dislike the deauthing of old cards to make you buy new ones. When they did that I stopped playing.

    As for the market place items. The potions everyone is having a fuss over are from the old F2P server before the total game conversion to F2P not some new item. Other then that the Market place has been full of appearance armor, weapons, mounts and house items. None of which are needed to play the game. They have hardly tried to sell you dungeon access. But so what if they did. Does no one remember the adventure packs that were optional from years ago?

    In the end they are going to add items they think will sell, and make money. Eq2 is heading for park mode very soon. It will have as much attention, maybe even less, then Eq with Eq3 not to far away.

    I think itemization is far more of a problem in EQ2 then some bobbles on the market place, and lon. Itemization will break the game when the gear we are playing to get, or beyond itemization the story we play to see starts to make even less sense then it does now.

    Reply

  • Claviarm

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    @Fievall
    Re: “It doesn’t affect you”

    This is a multiplayer game. What other players do affects you by definition. A player with identical gear and skill to you, but who is more reliable because they are willing to buy cure and self-rez items, is a more desirable ally. I know it’s popular to believe that someone willing to open their wallet can’t possibly be as skilled a player, but that’s simply wishful thinking.

    Re: Selling cure potions is okay because it’s not required to clear content

    (I hope I haven’t mischaracterized your statements there.) Given that you’ve cleared content with existing gear, it’s safe to say that even better gear than you have is not required. Does that make it okay for SOE to sell superior gear to yours on the marketplace, simply because it’s not required?

    There are people who would say that would be fine too. Lots of unabashedly pay-to-win games have plenty of players, after all. It’s a matter of perspective and values. I just hope there will be something left for those who feel differently.

    Reply

  • Malade

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    Do the bought cure pots cure ‘curse’?

    Reply

  • Drulo

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    If there are going to implement items from the EQ2X server I really wish they would add tradeskill components back into the marketplace, I loved being able to buy a 5 pack of heirloom rares!

    Reply

  • Aura

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    I had this thought to, so I picked one up to try it out. They do not seem to affect curses.

    Reply

  • Fievall

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    @Claviarm

    That really isn’t how it works. I can make a ‘what if’ for just about any situation that makes either choice you make sound wrong. Reality is that this is not an issue no matter how much the doomsayers want it to be. You get a spot in a raid based off of reliability, consistency, and personality.

    We have had plenty of people good at playing their class, but because they didn’t either listen, or just rubbed people wrong, they were not kept. Even when we required people to have cure pots that are tser made, we didn’t kick them because some filler carried his all the time. I’m not saying some raid leader wont do that. What I’m saying is a good raid leader fills his raid based off of skill, not willingness to buy SC items. A raid leader who needs his raiders to buy a sc item is a raid leader who does’t know how to form a raid, and has a bunch of very unskilled people under his command. (btw I am not one of the people who believe someone willing to pay for advancement are unsklled. They may not have the amount of free time as some of us to get where they want)

    Re: (I hope I haven’t mischaracterized your statements there.)

    Na that’s about right, while there is a little more to it, that is the meat of the subject.

    Now about selling gear. SoE had a very long time to release what ever they wanted to the market place on the Freeport server. In that time the gear they sold was the basic tsing gear that any tser armor maker could make. They had a chance to sell gear that was powerful, and they didn’t. Does this mean that they wont in the future? No. But it does lean in the direction that it is very unlikely.

    That being said. I could care less. I play the game still, to play the content. If Joe the Ratongan wants to buy his gear that is on him. I’ll be earning my gear.

    Reply

  • thait

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    If Aura is right and they don’t effect curses then they are better than current pots only in that they will take off all status effects (besides curse) at once instead of only a single type. That makes the cost for benefit even more horrible than before.

    Reply

  • Lidet

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    Like hey man it was no big shakes when it was carpenters gettin outshone – it was just furniture after all. It was no big shakes when they started with the Racial Armor set, it was appearance gear after all. It was no big shakes when the SC flying mounts bypassed in-game questing, it was FLYING after all. It was no big shakes when it was Research Time Reducers, you can get those in Dungeon Maker after all (or the solo quest yawn)

    Martin Niemoller ring a bell for anyone?

    The Racial Armor sets are where it had proven too bad a mojo to let go on without saying something. It diredctly impoverished the game itself. Those would have been perfect items to put into a Racial Quest line that could’ve added direct enjoyment and lore to the game, just an example.

    Reply

  • Mach

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    With the curse question answered what about control effects. Can you use these potions while being stunned/charmed/mezzed to break the effects?

    Reply

  • Sat

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    These cure potions cure 500 levels of detrimental effects of ANY kind. If they cured noxious, arcane, elemental, and trauma all at the same time, you can bet your donkey that if you were in a raid guild, they would not just ask, but EXPECT you to buy them, since it would make the raid force that much more effective than one that is only using in-game acquired cure potions.

    Raids that care enough to min/max enough to worry about cures are concerned with people curing themselves? bahahahaha

    Reply

  • badcat

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    This is a test, you wait and see they will be here full time soon, the play to win button is in place.

    Reply

  • Mermut

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    It’s also way more healing then any healer can do to. It will take 5 detriments off, at top level, from a level 100 mob. That’s something that it takes a healer 5 pt cures to take off you. This is not a ‘minor item’ when it comes to group play. Not at all.

    Reply

  • thait

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    @Mermut

    Someone has already said it wont cure curse. And if you are talking having trauma, noxious, arcane, and elemental all up at once i can tell you that healers can already strip them all off you in one cast.

    Now if you are talking stacked, as in 5 trauma’s on you at once i know a warden can strip off stacked status effects though i cant remember how many and i think the inqi can as well but i’m not sure. And i know that mercs are able to cast a single cure and wipe out all stacked status effects besides curse in a single cast though for some reason mercs wont cure curse. We had a merc strip 20 stacked noxious’s off a player when we were trying to see if they could.

    So no it still wouldn’t be something amazingly powerful compared to players. The more i think of it the more pathetic it really becomes actually. It’s super expensive to do what a normal healer or merc can already do.

    I don’t think they should keep it though. Not because i think it’s overpowered, which its not, but because it effects your in-battle gameplay which i don’t agree with.

    As for the Luck potion, really how can anyone even complain about something that pathetic, especially if it works only for body dropped cash. Heck even if it works for chest drops it still wouldn’t be worth even a quarter of what they charge for it. The only people who i can see buying it are people who don’t understand math and somehow think that getting an extra 25% cash drop is going to get them lots of cash. If it’s only bodydrop cash that it effects i would try to feel sorry for the stupid people who buy it but heck they’re stupid so i’ll just laugh at them instead.

    Reply

  • Mermut

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    @Thait

    My main and favorite toon is my warden. At level 92, her point cure will cure 101 levels of detriments. That means unless the mob is level 50 or less, a single cast of her point cure takes off one detriment. My mastered out group cure will do 124 levels per person.. which is also only one det per person. My AA cure does 207, so it can take off 2. If I put 10 AA into it, I can get i to take off 3 detriments per person.
    That pot is significantly better then any cure any priest can get.

    Reply

  • Lempo of Everfrost

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    @Thait
    Yes the potion only works on body drop, I found that out today, I had my suspicions that it wouldn’t HOWEVER, the description says COIN loot NOT BODY LOOT, if I loot 40+ plat from chests in SoH it IS coin loot.
    If they want to sell this kind of garbage in the SC shop the only thing I can do to stop it is vote No on the silly polls they send out. I can and will however make sure that they promote and advertise items in a non-decpetive manner.
    I agree that this item itself is the most harmless of them all, that does not excuse them falsely advertising it.

    and @ Feldon – LOL
    Thanks for fixing my post. :)

    Reply

  • thait

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    @Mermut

    Thanks for that info. I knew they could do more than one but i wasnt sure exactly how many stacked they could pull off. I agree that the pot shouldn’t be there as i don’t like that sort of thing. Not to mention the cost of a stack of them. I mean paying a couple plat for a stack of pots is one thing. Paying over 40 real dollars for a stack of pots is so insane i can’t even imagine the person who’d do it, that would require stupid amounts of cash to waste. I could see someone putting out the money to pay for armor, or weapons. Something you’d get a long term use out of but you can run through pots in nothing flat in current content. That’s a truly stupid amount of money to put out to cover a job your healer should be doing, especially when you can get ingame pots to spot cover anything your healer might not be able to get to instantly.

    Except Curse pots! The one thing i really want! why cant alchemists make curse pots. Healer curse cure is on a stupidly long recast timer and that doesn’t help me when the mob’s throwing out curses like theres no tomorrow.

    @Lempo

    I agree that it is somewhat deceptive in that they dont specify body drop coin on it. I really hope someone doesn’t drop a ton of money on those thinking they’re going to make some money with it. The boost to body droped coin would be so tiny as to be almost not there. I voted strongly disagree on those polls as well, last thing i want is something to influence the battles and the content i run.

    Not that i’d buy it if they had stuff like it in the marketplace but sooner or later if you had something like power pots that work in battle you’d end up with people telling you how badly you suck just cause you won’t spend money on them.

    Reply

  • Mach

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    @Thait

    It’s pretty simple really, they use curses in a fight to task saturate the healers in an attempt make the fight more difficult. Some you cure, some you don’t, sometimes you have to pick the right one to cure over the others. Having a potion would negate most if not all of that and trivialize those situations. Not saying it wouldn’t be nice to have I just don’t see them easy buttoning a mechanic they use in a wide variety of ways. At least not until they start making them hit as often as normal detriments.

    Again has anyone tested whether or not the cure pots can be used to remove control effects like charm, stun, stifle, or mez? If so, I can see where having those as a healer (that doesn’t have the option of steadfast) being almost mandatory. I.E. A stun hits a group in a raid, healer pops cure pot, cures group, all is well.
    Yes I know about the freedom of mind/action pots but those are once every 15 minutes, 7.5 at the earliest not the 15 seconds like the SC ones and they don’t break a charm or mez.

    Reply

  • Lempo of Everfrost

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    @Thait – Just in case you are not aware I have the same stance on these items in the SC shop as you. I bought 2 (6 charges) of the cure pots to do some basic tests with, and 1 potion of luck. I voted no on all of these items too. I bought 3 $15 wal mart cards on the triple day and got me an account set up to start to do some boxing here and there, $45 paid for all expansions and 1 year, this type of stuff, char slots, appearance items etc all of which I have bought I have no problems with them being there.

    Reply

  • Kwill

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    The loot potion makes up for some of the coin taken by a merc … clever.

    Reply

  • Kwill

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    Those potions don’t seem to be on the marketplace any more. I did a search, nothing came up.

    Reply

  • Techno

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    I for one, am just glad they had the poll about this, and shared the results with us like they said they would. At least I know the community clearly pushed for these item types to be allowed in.

    Reply

  • Mach

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    Yup, looks like they’ve been pulled off early and hopefully won’t be making any kind of return. I won’t hold my breath however.

    Reply

  • Lempo of Everfrost

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    Well I guess I’ll be getting my 50SC refunded. It was either that or fix the bug and give me a new one. :p
    I too am glad they are gone and hope they stay gone.

    Reply

  • Murfalad

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    I don’t care myself if these “only affect solo content”, or any other excuse. As far as I’m concerned pay to win has no place in a game.

    The solo content all the way to the raid content should reward good gameplay.

    Reply

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