Breaking: Your Characters in Dungeon Maker! It’s Happening!
From SmokeJumper on the EQ2 Forums:
Starting in the next couple of days (on Test server only) you’ll be able to play any of your characters in a player-created Dungeon Maker instance.
This doesn’t invalidate playing as an Adventurer, but you can also play as your regular characters, regardless of level. (Well, okay, you still have to be at least level 20 to play a DM instance, but you can play any characters from 20-90.)
We have still code to create, but we’re excited enough about getting this to work that we’re putting it on Test over the holidays so that we can get your feedback on this cool new addition to Dungeon Maker.
Please play a bit on Test over the holidays, if you’re so inclined. We’re eager to get your feedback when we come back for 2012 so we can tear into it and make it great for you! This is going to be awesome. The creativity of this community is unparalleled, and if you can play your own characters in those dungeons, then the sky’s the limit!
Here’s a few bits of info about the feature as it is on Test:
- You still have to be level 20 to play in a Dungeon Maker dungeon, but any character that’s level 20+ can be used.
- You can *also* still play as an Adventurer if desired.
- For this test, player parties have to be composed entirely of either all Adventurers, or all regular player characters. Mixing of Adventurers and real characters is not currently allowed in this version.
- Dungeon Mark rewards are turned off while on Test. (Until we balance the feature further, we can’t reward Dungeon Marks.)
- This feature is not finalized. It’s on Test because we want your feedback on it so that we can then tune it to a finalized state after the New Year.
Enjoy! This will be coming to Live servers as soon as we can finish it up after the New Year!
and this note from Rothgar:
The dungeons scale to the group level. Currently this uses the same scaling code that we use in other scalable instances. We can tweak as necessary after some testing.
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Comments (35)
Necromancer
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They’ll probably completely nerf the amount of Marks and XP you receive making the entire concept completely worthless – much like they did with Monster Missions in the original EQ.
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Me
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Can silver level “members” even use the gear you get from marks without buying unlocks?
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Narsikus
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@ Me
Not if it’s legendary or fabled.
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Landiin
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It is still fail because you have to use premade maps and you have no control over scripts. Nothing wrong with it the way it is for people who like playing dress up I guess. For those of us who like to really design it’s a bit lacking.
If they really want to see what we can make, open it up so we have access to their scripting language. Just giving us the use of their scripting and keeping the premade dungeons would be killer.
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Fail
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You don’t want ‘Glass’ weapons anyway. Better off doing real zones and getting weapons that will stay and have better stats. AoD for the most part is just a bunch of Fluff stuff put together, IMO it would have been better to serve the features individually via SC rather than forcing people to spend $40.00 for your weapons to glow, or try to compete with SWTOR companions, and TS apprentices that have a 15 day time sink on each recipe…
Smokejumper called himself SJ not because he tries to save a game, but He Jumps to another game once he sees the current game catching smoke cause it’s starting to fail due to these implementations.
“To generate revenue on an MMORPG, you have to show that you care about the playerbase” Sadly adding more fluff or SC appearance items does nothing to improve the game in itself… Call of the veteran still fails most of the time when used and there’s just a bunch more stuff put on the back burners by the Team because they are diverted to work on practically useless non-game changing items.
I know this is just another rant/wall of text but you know what it’s getting worse.
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Eschia
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None of the adventurers to pick from suit my desires anyway. It will be nice to get Eschia, my warden, to plow through there with her raid gear. Dungeons should be completed in a heart beat.
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kralus
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people would rather play their own characters? shocker.
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Savas
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I tried it out after completing all the freeport quests this weekend (which I had a blast, space cat vs erudites, rats, and birds. I was almost content with the exception of not seeing a vah shir yet) Anyway, I wondered why they didnt further intergrate dungeon and housing assets. Why dungeon marks when you could have a tradeskiller make stuff, theres plenty of other rewards in there. Put in scripting and the ability to use your own character and you’d have lots of free content.
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Fazz
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OMG! They give what so many people wanted and still you people complain!
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adolf102
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Ha great news! I was excited about this feature but playing as two-legged dog or bloated frog didn’t really appeal to me.
Playing as myself, now that’s opens whole new world of adventure!
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Gwen
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Cant help but to disagree with you Fazz they gave what a certain type of player wants. But itemization is still messed up, as is CoV and not to mention pathing…
They gave what would give to people to increase the revenue from players that love spending sc on fluff items, but they don’t fix the actual issues that would make a big percentage of the player base happy.
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milliebii
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Dungeon Decorater 2.5, I am underwhelmed. Wake me when they actually bring out a dungeon design tool.
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cellinaire
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Lol eq2wire now has become the EQ2Flames?
(anyway, you guys should have already expected that this feature will be nothing more than a glorified decorator, given the Skeletal Revamp failure and this troubled, old game engine with which we are playing EQ2. I mean, what you guys have expected from them?)
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Isest
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LoL is this soe addmitting nobody is using dod in its current form. Rofl. WE could all see that writing on the wall. I bet it still will not be used other than the decorators.
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Galaji
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@Fazz
Sadly, yes. I’m counting 8 of the 14 comments as negative.
I’ve been noticing a trend over the past few weeks (since coming back to EQ2) that the community is overly negative and unpleasant.
It is a bit sad, really. I truly don’t understand the phenomenon of customers who are unhappy with the service they receive, become callous toward providers of said service, yet continue to do business with the company.
Where does this mindset and behavior come from?
I wholeheartedly support voicing opinions and suggestions to the devs, but the negative and snarky tone that permeates the comments on almost every announcement here disappoints me.
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Landiin
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@Galaji we continue to play because, well there simply isn’t any thing else out there any better. Plus if no one complained you would still be running around DoD in them dumb avatars. So be glad people like me complain, else you passive people would be running around playing hello kitty that is full of bugs.
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Gunthore
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@Galaji
The reason we complain is because the game is in the worse state it has ever been in, plain and simple. Since launch there has never been a time where there was so much to complain about. And fixing things players don’t even care about is not the way to silent the crowd.
I’ve been a sub since launch and I’m glad F2P is here because I’m done giving them money every month when they’ve destroyed the game I once loved. That’s another reason people complain so much, they care about the game and hate it’s current state and direction. People want so badly for SoE to somehow make some magic and salvage this game into it’s once great form, sadly, I don’t think that is possible and I can almost guarantee that it isn’t under current management.
TBH, I think most the crap they are doing in game now is just a test bed for EQ Next.
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Galaji
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@Landiin
So you acknowledge SOE is providing you with the BEST option for your free time, and then say that it isn’t good enough?
If you feel you deserve a better product, does the supplier not deserve gratitude for achieving the status of BEST in their field?
@Gunthore
Very well, you say the reason behind the way you speak in the community (overly negative complaining) is your deep care for EQ2.
If EQ2 were a person you knew, somebody you cared about and wanted to see return to their “once great form,” would you be negative toward them all the time and belittle them with snarky comments?
Do you enjoy being around people who do act that way?
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Galaji
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On the topic of the DM changes…
I’m glad there is more diversity being added into the DM experience and that development time is being spent on improving it.
I was a bit underwhelmed by the current implementation of the system.
It has a lot of promise and a fairly sturdy framework built, but it could be so much more.
Perhaps I am one of the few, but I actually enjoy playing something other than my character.
I love my warden, but there are days I feel a bit jealous of the (lazy :p) dps players who get to kill things. Or the times I want to try my hand at being the tank and leading the group.
However, the current avatars could surely use a few more skills, at least enough to introduce a decision point to us players as to which skill we want to fire off. The current model is very restricting and, for most avatars, lacks any real choice of what to use.
Hopefully this will be addressed so that playing a monster avatar in a mixed group (when it is enabled in the future) doesn’t become frowned upon or a handicap to the group.
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boho
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You’ll rarely see positive comments anywhere when it comes to an MMO because happy customers don’t take time to tell everyone they’re happy. On the other hand, unhappy customers want everyone to know there unhappy, and want you to be unhappy too. It’s easier, and more satisfying, to stage a protest than it is to hold a parade.
I’m sorry to see they buckled on their original design of avatar-only dungeons. That was something entertaining and fresh. 90/300 Shadow Knights pulling whole dungeons at a time isn’t. I just hope the reward system isn’t obliterated because of this. With any luck players who choose to use their own characters will not get as many rewards, while those who stick with avatars won’t see any change.
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Feldon
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There is nothing refreshing about playing an enemy/mob with 4 spells/combat arts.
If they’d actually taken the time to create 6 interesting characters with full spells/hotbars and a choice of buffs, with an actual personality, things they say, etc. then I would have said ok, you don’t need to allow player characters.
Put in a swaggering Buccaneer, a cocky Treasure Hunter, a classic Druid , an overconfident Elementalist, a daring Rogue, and of course a Beastlord. Give them dialogue. Give them a good collection of spells and combat arts and buffs (and give them maybe 2 concentration slots so they have to pick what role they want to play).
You know why we like our characters? Because we’ve gotten to play them, get to know them, customize them, play them certain ways. Playing an orc or another mob with 4 spells just feels like you are possessing a dumb animal for a quest. There is no connection between me and what I’m playing. Who wants to remote control a mob through a dungeon? I sure as heck don’t.
If they allow player characters, then they need to implement a new Mentoring system just for DM Dungeons that strips off all powerful effects and makes them like a TRUE level 50 character.
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skippydippy
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Not to complain but the whole idea was flawed from the off,you should have been able to use your character in the dungoens it wasnt rocket science but still good to see it happening,though i doubt it will save it in the long term
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Feldon
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No, because I delete trolling posts and personal attacks on other commentators. They don’t. People are making brutally honest statements, which is something I allow.
The biggest weakness of Dungeon Maker is that the tools are EXTREMELY limited and we can really only place single mobs in a few preset dungeon layouts, and place a few items that give every mob in the room a certain buff. We cannot create encounters. We cannot buff just certain mobs or the boss. We can’t add doors or keys or quests or any kind of progression. We can’t script anything. I cannot create a dungeon with any of the interactivity or progression of Faydwer, Kunark, TSO, SF, or Velious dungeons. The best Dungeon any of us can do is a Sanctum of Scaleborn dungeon crawl. All we can do is decorate it better.
We can’t make a dungeon interesting enough for people to want to run it if it weren’t for insanely powerful loot and rewards (Research Reducer potions, Potency adornments, etc.) that exist now.
The second biggest weakness I spelled out above. It’s not that we couldn’t play our own characters, although people screamed for that. It’s that the Avatars they gave us are extremely bland, hobbled, boring, and uninteresting. They didn’t get the hint from Arenas, and Solo Shard quests, and the Loping Plains quest that players DO NOT WANT to possess a dumb animal with a half dozen spells. I said in August right after Fan Faire that this will work IF and ONLY IF they put in robust Avatars that people want to play. They didn’t.
Customer Service is dead in the US, largely due to Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart provides a horrible customer experience, but people are cheap, or can’t afford any better. See also Cable companies, Insurance companies, etc. Doing business with horrible companies has gotten to be institutionalized in the USA. Just 25 years ago, Good Customer Service was expected. Now it’s rare. When an institution such as the Better Business Bureau has been totally corrupted and turned into a protection racket (pay $300 and get all the negative reputation wiped from your report), you know something is rotten.
Everyone I have talked to in the EQ2 community, even what used to be the most positive, effervescent people you could imagine, some of them running other EQ2 fan sites I can’t name, are appalled at what’s happening to EQ2 and have no confidence in SmokeJumper.
Where does this mindset and behavior com from?
It comes from watching SOE stumble over and over and over on things where if they’d just asked the community, they could have gotten it right the first time. It’s painful for me to watch. I could either shut down EQ2Wire, or document it truthfully and hope something changes. I choose the latter. Players are tired of the long-standing issues which you are not aware of since, as you say, you recently returned to EQ2. Itemization has been broken since Destiny of Velious and got broken even worse with Game Update 61. Pathing has been broken making tanking a total mess. It took over a MONTH after Destiny of Velious was released for all of the bugs in the Access Quests to get fixed. I could go on and on.
Respectfully, if you really find the comments on EQ2Wire to not be to your taste, there are other sites out there. Although frankly most of the positive/enthuaistic EQ2 sites stopped updating years ago.
You seem to want to blame the community for having little faith. We didn’t all suddenly decide to be negative.
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Fetchem
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Nice to see my thoughts consolodated in one fell swoop Feldon. Thanks for all you’ve done for EQ2 as well. EQ2 wire has always been my go to site for current information.
I was one of the veteran holdouts, but I just couldn’t support Smokey’s direction anymore. Velious/AoD, itemization, and the bugs finally did me in.
Hopefully they do turn things around. Until then I’m off to play in space for a bit.
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Isest
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Honestly Feldon deserves a medal, or some sort of commendation. I recommend him for person of the year award. He does so much for the eq2 community and has to deal with all of us at the same time.
My comments were more of a question than anything, but honestly we had all been telling soe no avatars on this and they did not listen. Now they are going back and trying to make it right after it obviously failed the first time.
It is mishaps like this, dungeon finder, broken itemization long standing bugs that have yet to be fixed. Stuff being added to the game that nobody asked for in the name of having what other games have that has shaken the confidence of the player base.
All I have to say is give it some more time smoke-blower will be gone as soon as eq1 goes free to play, that is what he was hired for and as soon as that is done he is out of here, or at least that is my prediction.
Then soe will have to pick up the pieces. Oh and to those whot think this is eq2flames, you obvously not been reading that forum. Things for the most part are quite tame compared to eq2flames and the official eq2forums.
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Antonia Bayles bit on the side
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“OMG! They give what so many people wanted and still you people complain!”
What do you mean YOU PEOPLE?!!
Seriously though, I think this is great news, too many whiners posting here.
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Feldon
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I am going to assume you include me in that group.
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Galaji
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@ Feldon
You seem to misunderstand me. I do no question where your unhappiness comes from. Nor do I question why you might be dissatisfied with EQ2. We are each entitled to our opinions. My grievance is with how these feelings are expressed.
You say I seem to want to blame the community…. Why yes, that is exactly why I said the attitudes I am seeing disappoint me. The thing that bothers me the most about EQ2 since coming back has been the people. (not all, to be sure. But enough to be concerning)
I think some of you forget that as players, YOU are part of EQ2. There is a responsibility that comes with being part of a community.
Sure, you can choose to ignore it and be selfish in your actions. Be aware that by doing so you, yourselves become one of the largest obstacles of the game you care about so much.
And just to touch on customer service, it is a two way street. The customers have just as much to do with the relationship as the service provider does. To believe a customer can forgo their responsibility but expect a service provider to honor their end is a fallacy.
I suppose my belief in personal responsibility and dignity shows just how little I fit in around here.
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Me
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I for one ca’t wait for Polesmoker to jump ship and ruin another game. Looking at his linkedin it seems he’s only sticks around for 2 years or so at each job.
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Anaogi
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@Galaji,
True as it is we are all entitled to our own opinions; however, none of us are entitled to our own facts.
The SOE staff are not entitled to praise and support when they do things the community is at odds with. You speak of us being ‘selfish’ when we do not support what they do, well, if we don’t like a thing, and want to display that displeasure short of the concrete sanction of no longer feeding money to SOE, that is absolutely our right. It’s also how smart enterprises learn what their customers do and don’t want. Your implied solution does SOE no favors at all.
This community for this game has been more than reasonable and helpful. It has tested, given feedback, made suggestions…it has shown patience as problems have persisted for years while pointless ‘features’ have been implemented, promoted, and ultimately abandoned…it has tolerated clueless public relations, occasionally hostile ‘Community’ reps, and propaganda pieces that would make Baghdad Bob blush. And yet, here so many of us remain, which is a testament to how many things they still manage to have gotten right over the years.
This does not change either fact–that this is still an incredible game, or that SOE has so frequently failed to do it justice. We speak out when we see it ill-served, perhaps from some selfish interest, but also because we love this game, and want it to be as good as it could–as it should be.
We have gone above and beyond. There is only one step remaining past that, and some take it every day. The game becomes a bit sadder place each time it happens; it is the point of no return, normally. If matters ever reach the point where that is the loudest message being presented, that will be the end.
Dissent, too, can be a service. Funny how some are so selective about that.
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Steve
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@Galaji – I used to be a complainer and I used to be an SOE customer (since March 2000). I am neither now.
I realized that “I stay with EQ2 because there is nothing else out there” almost sounds like addict talk. There is something better out there. It is called “life”.
Been enjoying the free time lately. My group just started SWTOR tonight. Originally I had planned on playing it too when it launched. I just have no desire for MMOs any more. Every single company does the same thing. They over promise and under deliver.
Sure, you may ask “why do you still come to eq2wire?” Well, morbid curiosity I guess. That and when you used to play something daily for hours on end you still want to check up on things and see how things are going.
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AlienShine
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Would be awesome though if they convert it to “Design your own raid”.
Then we could create our own content SOE fails to do 🙂
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Kwill
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The whole crazy train is going off the rails over there, despite the efforts of some good developers trying to do their jobs. I like this game. I know how to play it, it’s my relaxation when I have some free time. I don’t want to learn a whole other universe and make new friends which would be the case if I went to another game. Currently, customer service and accounting has a huge problem with my account that they can’t resolve, after three weeks of working on the problem. Scary.
Other companies that I am familiar with actually have a person ON STAFF that reads outside message boards and media to find complaints, and address them. For instance, I know for a fact if you complain about the SmartPak company on a forum, they will post or send you a private message and try to resolve the problem. They have a very good reputation with their customer base, as a result. SOE won’t even address problems on their own official boards, unless it suits them.
Why are some of us complaining? Because we want to play what used to be a well designed interesting game. For various reasons, SOE is making it very difficult to do so. There was a recent conversation in level chat where someone asked, how many of you have more than 6 people in your guild on right now? The answer, not many. In my own guild, we don’t even have enough of the correct classes to make a good group, let alone a raid. I would like the game to succeed, but under current conditions, it seems to be in perilous shape.
I hope people like Feldon and others will keep pointing out specific errors in design and execution. I still believe the game can be fixed. I really WANT to believe that.
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Korvus
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I wanted to believe for a long time also. I still visit once in awhile to see if anything has changed for the better. Each time I see an update, it just reinforces the reasons why I quit and continue to not resub. I beta tested and provided feedback for KoS, EoF, RoK, TSO and SF. I spoke with my money at that point and unsubbed. At the rate the game has been progressing, I dont see myself coming back either. Not that its a loss to you, of course. =P
I hate what EQ2 has become and its a place whre many MMOs are going also; which is extremely saddening imo.
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Batrastard
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Lack of tools is definitely an issue.
There is so much potential here. When they give more tools and access, players will be able to drive not only new content, but training for new players.
The newb quest to kill a training test soldier is supposed to teach you how to attack. Imagine if high end raid guilds could make app processes simply a dungeon maker run? Or have raiders prep for next raid by running a certain DM. There are so many applications that would be wonderful.
My outlook is patience, since it is so complex. If none of these thing pan out eventually, I will feel like the general tone of this board 🙁
I know certain ppl feel so lucky getting training from Mega on how to be a necro or Nizard on how to be a wizard. Imagine if they could produce a training zone with tips, tricks, cast order, etc specifically for their class.
With player made books this is really possible already, and once toons can run dungeons it will be hands on. The greater design tools are still hidden tho. What i would like to see would be cure training. This would require avatar with cures (or player toon), and scripted enemies with aoe dets.
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